New League System in Ranked

First Riot Post
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Heisin

Junior Member

02-03-2013

So I'm Bronze - 1 and the closer i get to 100 pts. the fewer points I get for winning up to the point where I only won 2 pts from 95 to 97. However, the friend I duo/que'd with, won 16 pts. How does that work?


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Gryupus

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Senior Member

02-03-2013

Well, I was very disappointed last night to find I had ended a game with 99 LP and that I'd need to play another game to get 100 and start my series. I was relieved when I won my next game, only to find I had gained 0 LP. I submitted a support ticket and got redirected to this thread, which was kind of robotic support and less than I expect from Riot. Hopefully issues like these will get sorted out with the system soon.


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xskippyx

Junior Member

02-03-2013

I played a few games with the new league system... I think I won 1 lost 3? and then I was dropped down to a teir/divison...thing (I went from 4->5)... I didn't think I should drop so quickly? especially since when I logged on in the morning I was ranked 7th in my division when no one had played any games....

I was just wondering why I dropped so quickly? it kinda baffles me =/ if anyone could help that would be awesome.


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Mark Akitaki

Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gosu Kingdemon View Post
When the patch was discussed it was not clear that if you are division 5 the last rank of it and if you lose a game would you go down to bronze division 1, and also when you are promoted and you lose one game would you go back down to the division that you were just in after getting into a new division? Also if its based off of losing streaks how much would you have to lose to go down a tier.

Yegg Please Answer this.
You can never drop a tier, they stated that they dont want u to be afraid to play a ranked match because u worked so hard to tier up and then u easily lose it. so they made it virtually impossible to drop a tier UNLESS u stop playing ranked for over a month. however to make sure u can't drop they make it EXTREMELY difficult to tier up, if u do though it is impossible to tier down, i prefer this system, it seems to really root out the bads from accidentally tiering up so easily, however it does slow everyone else down as well... but this seems like a very good way to do it


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Mark Akitaki

Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kindafungus View Post
I played a few games with the new league system... I think I won 1 lost 3? and then I was dropped down to a teir/divison...thing (I went from 4->5)... I didn't think I should drop so quickly? especially since when I logged on in the morning I was ranked 7th in my division when no one had played any games....

I was just wondering why I dropped so quickly? it kinda baffles me =/ if anyone could help that would be awesome.
i think it was random that u were in 7th because if no one had played everyone would have 0 points so ud all be tied for last its just they are going to put u in a position. dropping is strange i lost 2 of the start and didnt tier down im not sure why. i guess 3 lose at no points drops u? its just a few loses in a tier will drop u thats all i know, but they start u off with like 50-60 points for the next division so if u dont belong there ull jump back up quickly


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xbreejayx

Junior Member

02-03-2013

Good change is good Troll levels have reduced so i am happy!


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Grimer

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Junior Member

02-03-2013

Hi I am Silver V why do I win only 12-17 LP and lose 22-28 Points? I do not find it motivating to play at all I might just quit rank


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Malkeezadek

Member

02-03-2013

What Happens if you dodge a Placement match? I know there's a league point penalty for dodging once placed, but does it impact if you're still doing placements?


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YellowDog7

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoooveZiiig View Post
I don't like SC2's system, and I don't like this system either. I think you're overthinking it, and the amount of changes you'll have to do to it over time will be mindboggling. Moreover, you added this gem:



That is such a terribad idea. You know your system creates outliers - people that do not belong to a certain Elo, but end up there through happenstance and luck. You're locking these outliers up in a group where they don't belong.

Okay, outliers that aren't lucky and lose more than they should, and then climb back up won't be affected. But those that win a lot of placement matches out of nowhere and are placed in gold, might then spend the entirety of the season making gold players' life miserable by playing at a significantly lower skill level than them, all the while being unable to go back down to Silver or Bronze where they belong so they can actually have some fun instead of getting wrecked and yelled at all the time.

Unless matchmaking is absolutely separate from skill ranking, and that Bronze players can be matched with Gold players because, behind, Elo doesn't change. Which brings the point - why even bother?

Because if Elo is how you calculate matchmaking, you'll have to tweak the weight of Elo in the calculation of league points, if Elo is still the main measure of matchmaking, else you'll end up with players standing at a much higher Elo compared to the other players of their league, but will remain unable to advance because they're playing for 50%, at their Elo. A Plat level player, at a Plat level Elo, stuck in a Gold league because he spends his days playing Plat level opponents.

So either you end up with bad players, who end up being statistical outliers, stuck playing against players out of their league for a long period of time - yet bragging of their skill rank! - creating horrendous matchmaping nightmares for everyone concerned, or you end up with a system that shows a very poor representation of actual skill.

I'm calling it right now. The first change you'll have to make to your system is that you'll have to make a "Relegation Series" (call it something happier if you want) happen when players hit 0 points in the lowest league of their skill level (or lower, calculated in some hidden metric so that players that just join a new skill rank don't face a relegation immediately if they lose a game).

If, also, the system is weighted in that if you are of an higher Elo than what your skill rank, or division is, you'll end up with some poor shmuck stuck in gold that just kept losing because he didn't belong there, his Elo drifted back to 1100 and now he just can't leave 1st division, no matter what. In fact, him regaining 200 Elo wouldn't help him (if the system is weighted correctly), or he'd hit Platinum skill rating once his Elo hit 1500. Both are quite undesirable, I must say.

I hope you tested this thing thoroughly. Because the way I see it, no matter the way you set it up you're opening one hell of a can of worms.
Indeed. Absolutely correct.


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YellowDog7

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Akitaki View Post
You can never drop a tier, they stated that they dont want u to be afraid to play a ranked match because u worked so hard to tier up and then u easily lose it. so they made it virtually impossible to drop a tier UNLESS u stop playing ranked for over a month. however to make sure u can't drop they make it EXTREMELY difficult to tier up, if u do though it is impossible to tier down, i prefer this system, it seems to really root out the bads from accidentally tiering up so easily, however it does slow everyone else down as well... but this seems like a very good way to do it
And that is because you are either "trash"..... Bronze, which is HALF OF PLAYERS..... "decent" Silver... which is 50th percentile to 90th percentile of players, or "good" Gold.... which is pretty much all players. Some Gold have been so lucky as to be considered "Platinum".

"Bronze" players:There is a VAST difference between 10th percentile Bronze and 40th percentile Bronze. Match them against each other.... LoL Massacre Dude. Again and again and again. No contest. Teams made of 40th percentile shreds teams of 10th percentile. Would any 40th percentile team ever lose? I don't know. More than a 1000 test matches? Maybe once or twice.

"Silver" players:Again, stupid vast difference. Not quite as large, but still, very large. 60th percentile teams pitted against 85th percentile teams will lose, and very consistently. I believe they would lose almost every game. Someone would lose focus and start acting like an idiot. If they were properly motivated, the 60ths might win some. They'd still be rolf stomped most of the time. But they would win a few.

"Gold"/"Platinum" players:If you pit 95th percentile gold players... mid range gold players... vs 99.1th percentile Platinum players they would win a sizable number of matches. As in a bunch. Who knows, maybe almost even.

Wait, did I just say a WHOLE TEAM of Gold players vs. a WHOLE TEAM of Platinum players? I meant to say you are the lone "Platinum" player in a team of Gold fighting other Golds. Well then buddy, 51% win/49% lose. Enjoy your ELO gain. Or loss. Hee-hee. Whether a top non-professional player is Gold or Platinum is essentially random.

Diamond players:24/7 hardcore obsessed players. These guys are different. The difference between someone who does something as a hobby, and someone who does something as a "job". A team of Diamonds would probably ROLF-stomp 99.1 percentile Platinums pretty good. However, the question is.... how big is the pool of obsessive players vs. the number of Diamond "medals" available? 1 in 1000 doesn't seem like too bad a guess. But it might not be right. As you go up in percentile in the Platinums... at some point they are going to become Diamond players without the medal. Probably not before 99.7th percentile at the least, but still, it must suck for them if that is the case.

So basically the "system" refuses to acknowledge vast win-every-game-against skill differences in people in "Bronze" and "Silver" on one end, and at the end other(except Diamond which should be very, very high, but perhaps not 0.1%) ignores that there is little/no functional difference between a high-end "gold" player and a "platinum" player.

RIOT has access to hard core data and should draw lines accordingly. For example, the number of very-large-numbers-of-games-played players with a Diamond or Platinum rating could easily be measured, and Diamond adjusted appropriately. ONLY people in Diamond or Platinum should be considered. AND they should have a truly massive number of games played. The exact dimensions of the AP Caitlyns and AD Lux's crowd, and various other random builds could be assessed with a simply "gold efficiency" calculation of items bought. DPS and EHP and so on. This number wouldn't have to be RIGHT it would just have to tell the difference between the crowd that "reads ability descriptions" or "looks up build on line" and the crowd that thinks "Big Sword look neat! Pretty blond girl with big sword is hot!". The latter crowd gets set to Copper. Everyone else gets at least Bronze. Iron kicks in at the half-way mark. Then Silver kicks in at 80% and Gold at 90% Platinum at 96% and Diamond at the hardcore point measured as written above.

And no current "Platinum" players, you are little better than a 95th percentile "Gold". And you know it. Hence the stress. Unless you should be Diamond but are instead considered "Platinum". In which case it sucks to be you. My 96th percentile cutoff is arbitrary.