@Morello/Reds -- do you want AP Varus to be a thing?

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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
So basically what you're saying is AP Varus is worse. Got it.
Yes, I'm saying AP Varus is flat out not as good as AD, and I'll go a step futher to say that in my opinion isn't quite viable in ranked play.

Quote:
AP Varus can work, but it will never be better than AD Varus unless they give his Q and E AP ratios because the two build play exactly the same way and one is blatantly superior at it. You can talk about different damage curves all you want, but the ultimate point is AD Varus does more damage, and he does it faster and with no conditions. Believe me, I want champions to have multiple viable build paths as much as anyone, but right now AD Varus is just flat out better.
You're right, AD Varus is better than AP Varus as things are right now.

I brought up damage profiles because in a world where AP and AD Varus were both balaced and viable as much as any AP vs AD champs can be said to be balanced, then they would have different strengths and weaknesses in lane and team fights. AD Varus is more willing to trade single autoattacks, but AP Varus needs to stack 3 and consume blight charges or he loses the trade. In team fights, AP Varus would be doing a lot more AoE and burst damage but AD Varus would be doing a lot more single target damage and sustained damage. I think these make their playstyles different even though they have the same mechanics.

I'm hoping a Red will respond and say something like "No, AP Varus is not going to be buffed into viability; consider your dream crushed" or "Yes, AP Varus is intended to be a viable build path and we are putting an AP ratio on his Q and reworking/adding an item or two for AP/AS champs to help him out, and your dream of not being accused of trolling for playing AP Varus is not crushed."


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FancifuHarlequin

Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitter Gem View Post
If Varus had a way to pop his blight stacks outside of spells I could see AP Varus being okay.
This. Until then, AP Varus will never be a "viable" AP carry. He has massive damage spikes, but it's not enough to be as effective as other AOE nukers. I don't think his Q and E need AP ratios though. In its current state, his kit promotes either an ADC build or a hybrid AS caster build.


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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FancifuHarlequin View Post
This. Until then, AP Varus will never be a "viable" AP carry. He has massive damage spikes, but it's not enough to be as effective as other AOE nukers. I don't think his Q and E need AP ratios though. In its current state, his kit promotes either an ADC build or a hybrid AS caster build.
I disagree on both points. AP/AS Varus, and AP/AS champs in general, sit somewhere between an ADC and a burst mage. They have sustained damage but it isn't as good as an AD carry and they have burst but it isn't as good as a burst mage. His cooldowns are fairly high, but if you have an ult up you can consume your blight stacks 3 times without worrying about cooldowns -- even though AP Varus isn't really viable right now that enough to kill most champs in one rotation, plus he will have some sustained dps after with autoattacks.

To be honest, where I see him lacking right now is in AP/AS itemization, and his laning phase being hurt pretty badly by not having an AP ratio to harass with that isn't tied to his autoattack (I think it should be his signature spell, Q), and his sustain is hampered by no AD=no lifesteal and on-hit effects like blight don't proc spellvamp.

To me there is no reason to really build hybrid Varus because you'll do more damage as AD and AP both. This is mainly due to itemization in my eyes, as there isn't a hybrid penetration item.


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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

01-17-2013

bump


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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

01-17-2013

shamelessly bumping in hopes of a red response


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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

01-18-2013

I'd really like to get some feedback from a Red on this. I want AP Varus to be viable!


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Dryad Soraka

Senior Member

01-18-2013

ap varus.. lmao
just stop


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Cenerae

Senior Member

01-18-2013

I believe the general design philosophy behind AD champs with AP ratios (or magic damage skills) is that it's a method to keep the power of the champion balanced properly. Even though the skill has an AP ratio, you still use it because it's a good skill. If you gave it an AD ratio then you significantly buff the champion's power.

Something along those lines at least. This was a good year or two ago when the red in question (I think it was Xypherous actually) said this. Their design philosophy may have changed by now, or I may have gotten it muddled a bit. But looking at Varus it certainly seems to hold true - his W and R are still good even without any AP. Imagine what he'd be like if they had AD scaling.


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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

01-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by florrie View Post
ap varus.. lmao
just stop
He struggles in the early game/laning phase, but in team fights he puts out a lot of damage. As long as I have somebody peeling for me in all fights, as AP Varus I have the highest damage done to enemy champs after the game is over.

All I'm asking is for a Red to comment on the future of AP Varus, as that is the way I prefer to play him playstyle-wise.


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Centuros

Senior Member

01-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
So basically what you're saying is AP Varus is worse. Got it.

AP Varus can work, but it will never be better than AD Varus unless they give his Q and E AP ratios because the two build play exactly the same way and one is blatantly superior at it. You can talk about different damage curves all you want, but the ultimate point is AD Varus does more damage, and he does it faster and with no conditions. Believe me, I want champions to have multiple viable build paths as much as anyone, but right now AD Varus is just flat out better.
No he's saying that if you DO get the 3 hits + proc, you will then WIN the trade due to more % damage on the blight stacks.


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