I may watch the news too much...

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c4lm

Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postal Twinkie View Post
I just gave you a list of countries. Well, a list with other data like periods of time injected....

Right now the biggest one in the news would be Mexico.
Most of those countries have laxer gun laws than the states...


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Wrenchman

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobagoh View Post
BTW the Oregon mall shooting a few weeks back stopped because of a guy was there who was open carrying his pistol. The shooter saw him, and ended his rampage by killing himself shortly thereafter.

But the media does not report this fact because it is against their biased gun control agenda.

During the early years of the Roman Republic, the Senate would forcibly take away all the swords of a town that had entered into open rebellion after destroying them on the battlefield.

Those towns would sometimes then get utterly dominated when a neighboring tribe decided to rape them.
Interestingly enough the Clakamas Town Center, where the shooting happen here in Oregon, was a "Gun Free Zone".

Two weeks before the Aura, Colorado shooting at the theater there was a shooting at a church in Aura. A recently released Felon obtained, illegally, a gun and went into the church and started shooting. The Felon shot and killed one person, but before shooting another was killed by a member who had his concealed carry, and was an off duty deputy. Of course this wasn't hinted at but in the most local of papers.

The Aura theater shooting, a lot was left out about that particular theater. It wasn't the closest to the shooters home, it wasn't the largest and most packed. It was the one that had "No Guns Allowed" posted on all their doors. The shooter knew he wouldn't come into any resistance.

I believe the number is 2 deaths per "mass shooting" where the shooter runs into armed opposition. 7 deaths at shootings where the shooter doesn't run into armed opposition right away. In almost every indecent where the shooter runs, immediately, into armed opposition they either shoot themselves, or attempt to flee.

Just some more food for thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campir View Post
Most of those countries have laxer gun laws than the states...
NO!

Mexico, as an example, has a horrendous registration and permitting process that must be followed. The firearms themselves can't, under law, leave the home they are registered to without special permits.

The number of gun related laws might be higher in the US, but they aren't stricter than other countries. The firearms industry and ownership in the US is very regulated, I can't stress that enough. But even with all those regulations added up, they are still far from as strict as countries like Mexico.


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Bilbosky

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campir View Post
I didn't mean on a global level. Can you name any countries with strict gun laws that have high violent crime rates? Just curious.
The UK, as I mentioned earlier. They recently had a 10 year spike in violent crimes following their handgun ban in 1997.

@Shirt - Total crime rates are mostly irrelevant when we're talking guns, and you've still done nothing to show that tightened gun control laws are followed by a drop in violent crime/homicide. The opposite is typically the case, with such stellar examples like Chicago, DC, or again, the UK. The gap in crime between the US and Europe is largely due to differences in demographics and culture.


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c4lm

Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postal Twinkie View Post
NO!

Mexico, as an example, has a horrendous registration and permitting process that must be followed. The firearms themselves can't, under law, leave the home they are registered to without special permits.

The number of gun related laws might be higher in the US, but they aren't stricter than other countries. The firearms industry and ownership in the US is very regulated, I can't stress that enough. But even with all those regulations added up, they are still far from as strict as countries like Mexico.
Yes, but you also listed Iran, Iraq, Columbia and Central Africa....


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vcadoda

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campir View Post
Yes, but you also listed Iran, Iraq, Columbia and Central Africa....
The funny thing is apparently us has more homicides per 100k population than Iraq and Iran...


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Lumione

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Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtl0l View Post
No... but you think a murderer using a knife is going to give you the chance to pull out a gun before he stabs you? Probably not if he wants to get away with it.

Arming good people with guns to fight bad people with guns is only making another step towards destruction rather than peace. I'm not a religious person but Jesus did say something like turn the other cheek which I think applies here and is a good principle.

Everyone dies... It doesn't make sense to be afraid of what fashion that it happens. If there is a consciousness after this one do you think you would care about how you died in your last life? It wouldn't be important... And if there isn't, it never mattered...

I've actually had a gun held to my head by someone who was berserk... I only thought, am I going to die now? Is this it? I thought I would be scared if I was ever actually in a deadly situation, but I wasn't.
hard to turn the other cheek when you're dead...

Still, OP stated his thoughts without referring to any of the cliche lines parroted by most people that argue for gun control, so plus one for him, despite our differing opinions.


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Wrenchman

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campir View Post
Yes, but you also listed Iran, Iraq, Columbia and Central Africa....
Yes, yes I did. Are you confused by that?

You are getting into areas of the world where tyrants, dictators, and other forms of oppression are high. Where what is on the books is not what is practiced, and it is more or less a dog eat dog world.

Looking at Iran and Iraq, you have cultures that breed hatred and violence from birth, literally. Let's look at Saddam and his rule, he had no problems letting people keep guns in their homes, or walk around with them. He had tanks, helos, and the simple practice of instilling fear on everyone, should they attempt to use them.

Don't like what he said or did? So what, attempt to use that firearm he is "letting" you hold, and he will kill your entire family in front of you. This was a very common practice.

I guess what I am getting at is that in the United States we have many laws, and the industry is well regulated, and the laws are well practiced. We have a lot of laws "On the books". In other countries there really aren't any "books" to put the laws into, and the "laws" that are practiced are far more draconian than what we have here in the US. Again, a great example being Saddam and how he approached the topic.

After all, what good is a law if you can't practice the law because of how the country is ran? Written law =/= practiced law.


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Shirtl0l

Senior Member

01-16-2013

So many crackpot defenses.

Like our government is likely going to organize a mass rape on its citizens if guns were banned.

I don't know what fantasy land you live in, but you could only dream of getting that lucky.


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CatchandKiss

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Senior Member

01-16-2013

I don't watch the news at all.
It's just not something I can trust.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clnozSXyF4k

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.


But I do own me a gun, it's my civic duty to do so.


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Wrenchman

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtl0l View Post
So many crackpot defenses.

Like our government is likely going to organize a mass rape on its citizens if guns were banned.

I don't know what fantasy land you live in, but you could only dream of getting that lucky.
One thing that has separated the US from other countries is that from the founding we recognized certain unalienable rights, one being the Second Amendment.

You can act like Governments don't repress and rape their people all you want, but it happens all the time, even in this "modern world" that so many people talk about. Mexico, Syria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, the list goes on and on.

Look at Cochabamba, Boliva and what their Government did to the people. They sold the water system and all rights to WATER to a private company here in the US called Bechtel. Bechtal began charging the poor up to 1/4 of their earnings for clean water, and had the Bolivian Government OUTLAW collecting rain water. If people didn't pay their water, Bechtel had the Government forcibly remove the people from their home and belongings, and then auction the property.

This all culminated in massive Riots across the city in 2000, where civilians went against the police with rocks and signs. In the end civilians were blinded from the type of tear gas used, maimed, suffered brain damage, and were killed.

All because their "Government" didn't have to fear the people and could pretty much do what the hell they wanted. Leaving the citizen to throw rocks and chant. Eventually the Riots grew to a point that the number of participants far out numbered the police and military, in the end the civilians winning.