@RiotNome Wave Respawn System and Nexus health mechanics encourages bad play.

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SifuCalvin

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

I have far too often run into these problems as the player with the most games played amongst my high elo dominion peers, and can accurately describe the problem with the handicaps on the Crystal Scar. There are a constant flow of problems ranging from champion imbalances and item imbalances that we are all too familiar with these days, and some people fail to recognize that the map mechanics are what facilitate the champion and item problems.

Let me explain exactly what I mean:

Your team gains a solid advantage early game by outplaying the opponent and maintain a four point capture on the enemy for ~6-7 minutes, reducing enemy nexus health to less than 50. By this point we expect your own nexus health to range between ~350-460, lets take the 350 scenario. The respawn system will trigger a 300 point difference and give the losing team a -8 second respawn timer while the winning team is handicapped by an added 8 seconds on their death timers. For some reason the post a while back about the respawn mechanics (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...php?p=16196495) stated that the death timer handicap would not exceed (-4/+4) for either teams past 100 points difference in nexus HP but this is clearly inaccurate as the scenario I've just mentioned is a common occurrence and seeing 14-16 second death timers are very common in my games. The base death times are set at 26 seconds, I regularly witness death times of 14-16 seconds. The handicap is extending beyond every hundred health difference between Nexus'. The respawn window starts when a player dies and lasts twelve seconds. This means that if the winning team has a significant advantage of 300-400 difference in Nexus health, the losing team not only has a 16-20 second difference in respawn timers, but it is quite possible after an ace for 4 team members to ride a wave respawn of ~3-5 seconds. Now what about the respawn window of the winning team. It is only increased by half the added respawn timers. for a 300 health difference (-8/+8) the winning team's window becomes 12+(+8)/2 = 16s.

Now let me explain the flaw in the Nexus health mechanics very briefly, it takes 2 damage from every death on the team until 100 Nexus health. This is a huge problem when accompanied by the respawn timers/windows. Even if you are constantly killing the enemy team because their death timers are low enough to meet you at the Windmill almost immediately after the fight they will not lose Nexus health.

To put it simply, when you are up significantly in Nexus difference you have no means of reducing the enemy Nexus health. You cannot capture three points because of respawn windows and timers, and no matter how many times you kill them, you cannot reduce the enemy's Nexus health after it is at or below 100 points.

If you would like a clear example of how this encourages poor play, please scroll to (3:52:00) of this DominateDominion #39 tournament Finals game NMUH vs PECS Game #2 found here (http://www.twitch.tv/dominatedominion/b/356492515). NMUH clearly has control of the game and outplays PECS for the entirety. The problem starts after getting the enemy nexus health to below 50. Even at this point NMUH is wiping the floor with PECS in terms of kills, farm, and gold. But PECS is able to respawn to defend points even after being outplayed and killed after riding a wave respawn together only a few times. NMUH has no way to reduce the enemy's Nexus HP and PECS builds momentum with far lower respawn timers. The momentum allows them to kill the winning team once or twice and with NMUH dead for ~30 seconds per death this allows for a ridiculous amount of comeback potential when the winning team cannot wave respawn to counter.

I propose other methods of being able to reduce enemy nexus health or to actually fix the maximum respawn timer difference to accurately represent a (-4/+4) seconds.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Yup. My incredibly poor play that game was a meta-ploy to abuse the respawn mechanics, not because I'm a terrible player.

for cereal


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SifuCalvin

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

^ totally not cereal but it goes to show that it is possible and this should be fixed


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EvilPooters

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by inFe eD View Post
Yup. My incredibly poor play that game was a meta-ploy to abuse the respawn mechanics, not because I'm a terrible player.

for cereal
I liked your nidalee btw good stuff


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konfetarius

Senior Member

01-15-2013

I remember making this exact thread already. Oh well, I suppose if we spam these like the Kass threads, Nome could at least acknowledge he is considering to think this might be a problem.

Though, personally I favor disabling the respawn +/- difference when the game goes below 100/100 points. There needs to be a reasonable balance to accommodate late game comps, i.e. not eliminate the comeback allowing mechanics but just make them less absurd. Even a +4/-4 is an 8 second difference, which is a massive advantage.


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ShawNuff

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Member

01-15-2013

Agreed. Nome responded multiple times to one person necrobumping threads on behalf of "the community".


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Kazaan

Member

01-15-2013

I can see the spawn timers having a part in the the loss of the "dominant" team. But you have to also consider the late game of Vayne and Darius. They may do poor early game but wreck face late. I tend to do better later in a dominion match rather than earlier. Even if we stomp early game. I tend to learn how the enemy plays and how to counter it later in the game. The fast pace of dominion allows you to learn and counter teams throughout the game. Also, the blue team was making some fatal mistakes towards the end trying to 1v2 or 1v3. But I totally see how the spawn timers fit into the loss. They need to be fixed.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Yeah, I have both won and lost games based solely on overwhelming respawns lategame.

I'm fine with wave respawns, but the comeback mechanics need to go, or at least turn off if the teams are within 100-150 points of each other, which they currently do not.


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MMKH

Senior Member

01-15-2013

I agree, at least the difference in death timers should be reduced.


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Honestly, this is more game-changing in the last 5-10 minutes of the match than those clutch revives.