How's Heimer in this mode?

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NavyGothic

Senior Member

01-14-2013

There are some decent opponents for Heimer bot lane, but the hard counter is being ganked. The top tier bots either have excellent survivability / disengage (Nunu, Yorick) or have a good chance of winning a 2v1 (Malzahar, Jax, Urgot). And then there's Jayce in a class of his own.

Heimer doesn't have that; if he gets jumped on by a gap closer, he's pretty much dead. He's still a decent pick (less so in the assassin meta than he was in the bruiser meta), but your team absolutely must support you; you can't just crush bot lane by yourself the way Nunu or Jayce can.

He's godlike at holding points as long as he has someone to protect him from assassins, so that's why he's usually stronger to take top.


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Pyroxite

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
There are some decent opponents for Heimer bot lane, but the hard counter is being ganked.
I agree with this, to an extent. The easiest way to get stomped as Heimer is for the enemy team to gank you, particularly with Kass or assassins.

I think Wooglet's makes it plausible for Heimer to 2v1, and at +40 W/L I'm still managing that sometimes, but definitely less than I used to. It can definitely get frustrating though, if they gank you a lot. Map awareness is pretty big once you start winning and playing against better players.


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grifbomber

Member

01-14-2013

i find him to be worse top

but i dominate everybody but fizz, vi, and jayce,with him bot.


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kirillian

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyroxite View Post
I play Heimer about 90% of matches in Dominion, and in my opinion he's one of the best bots available. I'm about +30 on my W/L, which doesn't say much but without ELO it's the best I can offer.

Nunu, Malz, and AP Yi soft counter him, Yorick also counters him but inexplicably I rarely face Yorick despite what a great bot he is. In my opinion there is no hard counter to Heimer bot, you just have to play him enough to know the best way to deal with champs who have an advantage against him.

For builds basically I starts boots hpX4 and kage's, then upgraded boots (usually Merc, sometimes Sorc), BFT, Wooglet's as my core build and finally Banner of Command, Athene's, and Abyssal Scepter in varying order depending on what kind of damage I'm dealing with most.

Banner of Command is fun because, to my knowledge, no other champ ever builds it and people are surprised when you turn a siege minion into this hulking behemoth. The damage bonus passive on Banner works on Heimer's turrets, which is a not inconsiderable buff to his overall damage.

Anyways, I definitely suggest you spend some time playing him. You'll crush your way through low and middle ELO if you're good with him at all, and although my match difficulty has picked up significantly, I've never faced a champ bot that I felt just outclassed Heimer so much that there was nothing I can do. Getting ganked, now... that's a different story. In high elo Heimer will get ganked like a mofo because he pushes so hard, so you have to keep a close eye on your minimap, especially if they have a Kassadin.

Some quick thoughts on how to play against Heimer "counters".

AP Yi: Annoying matchup, but basically what you do is wait until after he uses alpha strike and only then drop your turrets. You can try leveling rockets first and harassing him in the early game, as his mana pool won't last long. Keep an eye on the distance between you and your minions, as that's obviously how he harasses for the most part. Be smart and don't use rockets while he's invis from alpha strike.

Nunu: Similar to AP yi, the way to beat Nunu is to run him out of mana. Despite his nom, he really cannot outpush Heimer. Place your turrets on the far side of the creep waves from where Nunu is (he's normally in the bushes), and if he runs out to chomp your turrets, unload your cooldowns on him. He can't trade consume for your damage if you do this, especially if you successfully maintain control of the health pack.

Malz: You'll have to stack MRes, there's no way around that. Other than that, harass with rockets, maintain high hp to avoid instagib with his ult, and place your turrets where his herpes cloud won't pass to them. Don't attempt to outpush Malz, as he will run you out of mana. Generally you'll be better off letting him push up closer to your node, as he'll be hesitant to ult you while getting blasted by your node, and you're closer to a health pack than he is. Malz is probably Heimer's toughest matchup.

Yorick/Elise: Both of these champs make your rockets more or less worthless, so level turrets to 5 asap and don't feed them in the meantime. Once you get lvl 5 turrets, place them behind the creep wave and their aoe will help clear out the bs pets. The best way to kill Elise is to bait her into jumping on you when you've got two turrets ready. Nade her face, lay turrets, ult, wooglet's if you got it, exhaust/barrier if you got it, kite a bit and nade again when you can.

And so on. If you have questions about other specific matchups I'll be happy to help. Like I said, my games are definitely getting harder, but I've never felt like I was outpicked, only outplayed, in terms of bot vs. bot matchups. If you like Heimer, I say play the hell out of him. He'll do right by you.
You should differentiate between the two Malz builds...Heimer is one of the few champs that can hold off an AD Malz push as the herp on AD Malz just isn't quite enough damage to chew through Heimer's turrets. It makes the lane a stalemate with Heimer on his turret and Malz pushed up (because AD Malz doesn't like sitting on his own turret)...makes Malz more vulnerable to ganks (which he always is anyway), so it's kinda a wash I feel...either way...as others have said...he's fair to ok botlane, but as you go up the ranks, your teammates will understand what ganking is and completely shut him down.


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Eloquid

Senior Member

01-15-2013

He's good, can be annoying as hell. He's better suited for Dominion than any other map imo.


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