Suggestion: Vote to kick in Champion select (ranked solo Q only)

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Yovalord

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01-14-2013

Alright, i have 30 mins to spare after losing a game of dodge chicken. I will give the scenario of what just happened, and a relatively safe way to deal with it.

Scenario

First pick: I'll play mid
Second pick: Top or jungle
Third pick: Top
Fourth pick: I don't play bot lane (Problem player)
Fifth pick: I'm last pick, i'll fill

The first three players pick mid, jungle, and top. Now you have all been in this situation and know what happens next. Fourth pick instalocks Hiemerdinger with clarity and revive and says "Alright you guys win, im ADC". Fifth pick doesn't matter at this point because if they pick a support to give the 1600 elo revive+clarity AD Hiemer a shot... you are pretty much down two players as the lane is going to fail against its opponents (in this case, EZ + Sona). And if fifth pick decides to go with trying the 4+1troll vs 5 game and take an ADC so your team has one, then you are still at best in a really rough spot. I dodged, and now i have a 30 minute timer because of the troll.

Suggested Solution

What if we had a "vote to kick" button in champion select where we could kick the toxic player?

How it would work

You click the "vote to kick" button on the toxic summoner, and if 3/4 of the players (the player getting kicked doesn't have the option to vote) they are forced out of the Q.

Why 3/4 and not 4/4?

Duo Q trolls, less common but it happens.

Wont trolls kick innocent people?

Well it takes 3/4 of the people to kick them, and you cannot join solo Q with more than 2 people.

What if its a situation where somebody claims "I just played with this guy and he was awful, we should kick him"

This would be the only way i could see this getting abused. My solution to this is, make getting kicked turned into a non stackable 10 minute penalty.

So innocent people still get penalized, why not just make it no penalty to them?

Well, in the instance where somebody did just have a really bad game, and from the sounds of it delt with verbal abuse from his teammate. A 10 minute breather wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen to him. Going into solo Q frustrated is never good for your ELO.

Also to prevent this from being abused by players by saying "I don't like the rolls i was left, just kick me and re Q". This would STILL probably happen, but at least it wasn't/isn't malicious and they are still penalized for it.



If you like the idea bump it and give a + for some attention c:


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Big Poppa Steve

Junior Member

01-14-2013

I'm currently serving an hour ban for the same thing, a guy went afk and got auto picked to Ahri after we'd already selected our mid and at 2 seconds before the match began I dodged to prevent another loss due to this kind of behavior. It's really lame that players are basically between a rock and a hard place with this, on one hand needing to take a time ban for dodging, and the other taking a nigh on automatic rating drop because we're forced to play at a disadvantage. Abuse be damned, having the system in place is better than no system at all.


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puppy match

Member

01-15-2013

Interesting idea...still trying to think of legit scenarios that will render your idea useless...

I really can't think of one...as this is restricted to solo and duo q only.
worst case is double duo q + a solo, and would still require 2 parties to agree to kick.
no issue there.

My only concern is the 10 minute penalty, why not making it an increasing penalty.
once in a while if you get kicked, no penalty.
If you get kicked back to back, minor penalty. another kicked, heavier.
It also tracks over time, if you get kicked often, well...tribunal justice may come in, as something isn't right here~
of course, just throwing tribunal out there as a reference

my other worry, not likely gonna happen, is the community behavior. Will this cause the community to be more "selective" as to who to play with?
Not saying that it will happen, just that people naturally want to be in control of whatever they can. If given the power to manipulate who to play with...things will be exploited


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Yovalord

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01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by puppy match View Post
Interesting idea...still trying to think of legit scenarios that will render your idea useless...

I really can't think of one...as this is restricted to solo and duo q only.
worst case is double duo q + a solo, and would still require 2 parties to agree to kick.
no issue there.

My only concern is the 10 minute penalty, why not making it an increasing penalty.
once in a while if you get kicked, no penalty.
If you get kicked back to back, minor penalty. another kicked, heavier.
It also tracks over time, if you get kicked often, well...tribunal justice may come in, as something isn't right here~
of course, just throwing tribunal out there as a reference

my other worry, not likely gonna happen, is the community behavior. Will this cause the community to be more "selective" as to who to play with?
Not saying that it will happen, just that people naturally want to be in control of whatever they can. If given the power to manipulate who to play with...things will be exploited
Well your number 2 concern is my reasoning for your number 1 concern The no stacking penalty is to help protect others from exploiters. The community in lower - mid elo (1 - 1900) is pretty vast, you aren't very likely to recognize people unless you Que back to back at the same time as them.

And yes i 100% agree, things will be exploited, BUT the current system is exploited right now really hard as well. There are trolls that live to make players dodge up until a game finally starts and then they troll the hell out of their team with their "AD Hiemerdinger". I think the pros far outweigh the cons.

One situation i could think of though, would be very high elo games, where you play with an exclusive pool of around 100 people and everybody knows the ones they like and dislike. Honestly though, if it became an issue where somebody never got to play, most of these people stream, and would have evidence against them that could get them banned for abusing the system.


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Oz SammyD X

Senior Member

01-15-2013

I want to see this, speaking of the this lobby area i see a lot of people calling roles and then someone else would say no im first pick so im going there... its a constant problem, is it possible for this rule to be placed in the lobby where everyone can see it, i believe whoever is first gets to go where they want, atleast thats what the summoners code says, this would also help with that kicking idea, you could just kick the player that refuses to follow the rules.


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gnfnrf

Senior Member

01-15-2013

For the scenario you describe, it sounds OK (though the fourth pick there did offer three options to play, so was in fact pretty flexible initially).

But what about the following scenario.

Everyone joins the lobby.
Player 1: I'll play top.
Player 2: ADC
Player 3: Mid.
Player 4: Support.
Player 5: Jungle is fine.

Great team, right? But, as champions are picked...

Player 4: Player 2 just picked Caitlyn. I lolking'ed him and he only has a 40% winrate with Cait. I don't want to lose this game, let's kick him.
Player 4 wants to kick Player 2.
Player 2 was kicked (Vote: 3 to 1)

Or the alternative scenario...

Player 4: Player 2 just picked Caitlyn. I lolking'ed him and he only has a 40% winrate with Cait. I don't want to lose this game, let's kick him.
Player 4 wants to kick Player 2.
Player 2 was not kicked (Vote: 1 to 3)
Player 2: Screw you.
Player 2 wants to kick Player 4.
Player 4 was kicked (Vote: 4 to 0)

Or...

Player 2 wants to kick Player 4.
Player 4 was not kicked (Vote: 2 to 2)

and now you have an ADC and support who have already gotten pissed off at each other before the match, and you're left with a bad game or someone dodging, as usual.


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Yovalord

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01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz SammyD X View Post
I want to see this, speaking of the this lobby area i see a lot of people calling roles and then someone else would say no im first pick so im going there... its a constant problem, is it possible for this rule to be placed in the lobby where everyone can see it, i believe whoever is first gets to go where they want, atleast thats what the summoners code says, this would also help with that kicking idea, you could just kick the player that refuses to follow the rules.
It really just comes down to communication. Players should announce their best two roles and people should work around those. If they cannot get those i believe they should respect the pick order. I start every game with saying: "Top > Mid > jungle > support > ADC", if im last pick and left with support/adc, well at least the team knew what they were getting themselves into when i do poorly.


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Yovalord

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01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnfnrf View Post

Player 4: Player 2 just picked Caitlyn. I lolking'ed him and he only has a 40% winrate with Cait. I don't want to lose this game, let's kick him.
Player 4 wants to kick Player 2.
Player 2 was kicked (Vote: 3 to 1)
Players usually wont group up on other players like that unless they are given a good reason too. Obviously if the situation was like "Player 2 picked caitlyn and has a 2% win rate and 100 games played as her" then id be inclined to vote her out, but frankly in that situation she should be playing a hero she is better at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnfnrf View Post
Or the alternative scenario...

Player 4: Player 2 just picked Caitlyn. I lolking'ed him and he only has a 40% winrate with Cait. I don't want to lose this game, let's kick him.
Player 4 wants to kick Player 2.
Player 2 was not kicked (Vote: 1 to 3)
Player 2: Screw you.
Player 2 wants to kick Player 4.
Player 4 was kicked (Vote: 4 to 0)
The other players in all likelyhood are not going to agree to that vote either. They might be pissed off at eachother, but CURRENTLY the same thing already happens. I see players claim that others suck at the role they picked on lolking and start fights now all the time. So nothing has changed there.


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gnfnrf

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yovalord View Post
Players usually wont group up on other players like that unless they are given a good reason too. Obviously if the situation was like "Player 2 picked caitlyn and has a 2% win rate and 100 games played as her" then id be inclined to vote her out, but frankly in that situation she should be playing a hero she is better at.
Remember, this is the same group of players who you think are toxic enough that you need kicking tools, but now they are nice enough that they won't use them stupidly.

Quote:
The other players in all likelyhood are not going to agree to that vote either. They might be pissed off at eachother, but CURRENTLY the same thing already happens. I see players claim that others suck at the role they picked on lolking and start fights now all the time. So nothing has changed there.
Right. You added a system with a bunch of complexity, and nothing has changed.


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Yovalord

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01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnfnrf View Post
Remember, this is the same group of players who you think are toxic enough that you need kicking tools, but now they are nice enough that they won't use them stupidly.



Right. You added a system with a bunch of complexity, and nothing has changed.
I want players that are attempting to make other players dodge by not playing the role they were left with, and flat out trolls kicked. Its not a group of people each game being malicious at champion select, its a single person. That is what the "Kick system" would be in place for. While i could be abused in other ways, it would take a majority of malicious players to do so, and the majority of the players on league are not. This isn't a system that is meant to stop players from calling people out for being bad, i never claimed it would. But it would give the option to kick out trolls.


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