Let us discuss a way to eliminate pre-game trolling

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Lower Levels

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

You want to solve this problem. Then its easy. Just add a marking system. If a player is trolling you in the pregame, then let players vote to give them a "bad mark" against them as the marks accumulate so does the time they have to wait before the next game. If they go three games without receiving the mark it resets. If they acure X number of badmarks in a row they will be sent to tribunal, or otherwise punished.

However there is a permanent bad mark history that keeps track of these. (similar to the way players get Honorable teammate, or honorable opponent.) This is some sort of dishonorable mark after they get enough their case is submitted to tribunal. They are given ONE shot to redeem their actions and otherwise they will eventually be banned.

long streaks of being good can reset this value. This idea could use a lot more work but the core elements are EXACTLY what will solve the problem.

Most of the mechanisms for the elements that would compose this system are already in place so it would take far less work on Riot's end then most other solutions


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Zoram

Senior Member

01-26-2013

This is very much an idea I think could work. It would need a bit of thinking about but I think its almost all there! Great idea.


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Zoram

Senior Member

01-26-2013

bump for further discussion.


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Color Deaf

Senior Member

01-26-2013

I always screenshot what that person says and then send in a support ticket about it with that picture attached. Riot does deal with it if you give them the means to do so.


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Zoram

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Color Deaf View Post
I always screenshot what that person says and then send in a support ticket about it with that picture attached. Riot does deal with it if you give them the means to do so.
Prevention and integrated systems are superior to making a hassle to screenshot and email support.


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XAlFias

Senior Member

02-02-2013

bu'y'p


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Onisake

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Hello Again Zoram. Got around to reading this thread after you linked it.

There are a couple of things that are going 'under the rug' here.

#1) Pre-game trolling is really only a major problem in Ranked competitive play. IE: Solu/duo queue.

All of the other game modes are generally more relaxed. some people take it a lot more seriously. i tend to poke fun at people that take normal blinds seriously. I generally like to win. but I like to have fun too. If I want a more serious game I will play normal draft mode. I'm honestly surprised this mode is not more popular. I see far less trolling there than I do in normal blinds.

but in any case trolling in normals is more acceptable. as long as it's not truly toxic. I met most of my league friends either by being trolled or trolling them in return.

But really why is trolling a problem? and why solo/duo queue especially?

Because people blame this on why they lose games. it messes with their mindset. it throws them off their game. it forces them into a situation where they aren't comfortable and are no longer performing their best. Art of war 101: you're no longer fighting on your terms so you're at a disadvantage.

But what really is trolling. Is it the guy that says 'mid or feed'? While I find this guy annoying he's not a troll.

Or is it the guy who sits and says absolutely nothing and then suddenly insta-locks a role that the rest of the team agreed to give to the last pick? because this is the guy that riles me up. lack of communication is the best way to lose a game. this guy is already not willing to communicate and it's only champion select.

so what behavior is really unacceptable? What behavior is annoying, but you can work around? 'mid or feed' i can work around. the guy who says nothing ever I have a problem with.


#2) This is a game. it is not a job for most of us. And in all honesty it is fun to do a little good humored trolling.

I often 3 or 4 man queue normal blinds with friends. and we will occasionally get in the mood to troll a little. More often than not the randoms in our match will join in the fun. all support team? very fun. We rarely expect to win these games, but watching an AD lulu or an AP Zilean **** all over a Darius top is very entertaining.

Even better is when you take flash ghost and run over and flash into the enemy base. do a little dance next to the nexus then dive the fountain and die before minions spawn. you can play some serious mind games with people and get in their head this way. you obviously give 0 F---s. come at me bro.

IE: there is a time and place for trolling. Ranked queue is not that time or place.

#3) With great power comes great responsibility.

This comes down to a philosophical approach and it deals with human behavior. Riot recently hired some PhDs on this to help curb some of the toxicity. I'm sure pre-game trolling is on the list. but compared to the in-game trolling it has to be back burner.

Also keep in mind that riot has made several posts on one fact: They prefer positive reinforcement to negative reinforcement.

Why is this? I'm going to call on a good friend of mine. because negative reinforcement causes fear. Fear is the path to the darkside. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering.

Riot doesn't want anyone to suffer when they play their game, especially if it's something within their control. So we wont' likely see any headway if we propose something that is a negative reinforcement.

We currently only have two things that are negative reinforcement. The Tribunal. And leaver buster. but both of these are necessary for curbing the toxicity. we'd all like it if they worked faster than they do. but it has to be fair and carefully calculated to avoid abuse.

The principle behind positive reinforcement is this: you encourage people to behave the way you want them to by offering rewards for good behavior. (Honor system) you completely ignore negative behavior.

Most people that troll, and I mean truly troll not what Yegg calls trolling, do this to get a reaction. If you completely ignore them they lose all of their power. it's a bit of reverse psychology. If you encounter a troll the best thing you can do is simply ignore them. don't respond to anything they say. dont' acknowledge them in anyway. don't tell them they are being ignored. just do it. they will get bored and move on. That or they'll go pout in the corner like an emo-kid. either way it's no skin off your back.

The absolute worst thing they can do is intentionally feed. If they do this, ask your opponents to report the guy. report himyourself. Yes it sucks. but it's only one game. How many games have you played total? i've played over 2000 league matches. less than 0.5% of these games have probably had true trolls.

As far as pre-game trolling goes. Most of the time I see Yegg's version of a troll. the guy who is only really good at playing one role, wants to win, and cries when he doesn't get his way.

We can't control true trolls. the best thing we can do is, again, ignore them. There also needs to be better awareness on how to report these players. You can send support tickets into riot and complain about them. It likely won't go through the tribunal. but you'll be directly interfacing riot about them.

Riot is taking toxicity in the community seriously. so reporting them via a ticket isn't outside the realm of possibility. and if several people are reporting one person for this via tickets they will likely take action or at least investigate them.

Also if we flood the support guys with tickets about pre-game trolling it provides further incentive for riot to add something in the client itself to automate the process and link it to the tribunal and let it be handled by a system they already have in place.

-------------------------------------------------

Ok. now that we have some context I can propose an idea.

When we enter ranked queue and are set up for a match we enter a lobby. we are given a set amount of times for bans. and a set amount of time for picks.

Typically during the ban phase is where people will call out what role they prefer.

almost everyone follows the meta, but what it comes down to is we have bot, jungle, mid, top.

The best thing we can do is provide data.

When someone calls the role you prefer (In my case it's support, lucky me) the first thing you generally think is: Are they better than me at it? is it worth the risk to let them take my best role and me to fill a role i'm not as good at for the good of the team? what if they suck at that role? etc. etc.

I'd love to be able to move my mouse over their slot on the left and see a little chart that has their win rate % based on lane. For a visual, look at my lolking profile. there's a little bar chart that lists each role and there's a visual representation of win rate and number of games played. Lolking profile

So lets say me and another guy are fighting over support and jungle. He has a 60% win-rate in support. Mine is 75%. He has a 20% win rate in jungle. Mine is 55%. (I actually do not play top. If i take a top champ it's into the jungle so while it looks like i have 100% jungle win-rate That's not actually the case)

It is in my best interest to jungle and let him take support. it gives my team the best odds of winning.

Furthermore as a jungler it gives me a lot of data as to whom I will likely need to babysit the most. I already know the person i'm allowing to support is a weaker player. so I'm likely going to need to gank bot and watch them closely. I might even have to counterward for them. If my top has a very good win% (75% or better) then I know i wont' need to help them much unless they specifically ask for it. this translates into any role really. Hey, our mid is a little weak. we should probably organize some ganks to help them out so we can win. etc.

of course there are some obvious problems with this. but it's a start

Second issue:

I personally would prefer if champion select had an 'auto-tranlsate' function similar to FFXI/FFXIV. forcing us to talk in pre-determined phrases during champion select only.

in champion select, when it comes down to bare-minimum we need to be able only a few things.

I want to play [champion].
I want to play [lane].
I do not want to play [lane].
I can swap [champion] for [champion].
can you swap for [champion].
Please ban [champion].
Please do not ban [champion].
[summoner name] please go [lane]/[champion].

Being able to say more than this is really where trolling begins. you can call people names. call them bad. insult their mothers/siblings/sexual orientation. etc. so straight out forcing us to only be able to say things we need to completely curbs the problem. it's a bit harsh and very much a 'scorched earth' approach. but it could curb the reason some people troll pre-game lobby according to Yegg.

Some combination of these two things would go a long way i think. The former being the most important for a team to plan and cooperate. Unfortunately this is easy to abuse. and it's not perfect. (Like I said, If i play a 'top' champion its generally in the jungle so it skews data slightly)


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NoMonku

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Senior Member

02-04-2013

Easiest solution I can think of is give the ability to report in pre game lobby. This should give away the "invincibility" that trolls have and hopefully allow for more flexible gameplay on their parts. I'm against a kicking system because I feel that's too negative and harsh. What if there's only one person who doesn't speak english and all the other 4 hate that? They'll just kick that person, which isn't really fair since they didn't break any rules. A pre game reporting system works because RIOT can deal with it and take care of it.

RIOT can also just make a server for troll people and just stick them all there instead of deleting their account. I think they did that for a few fps games, would maybe make trollers want to troll less lol. Lets them live in a nice place away from people who want to play more enjoyably.