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VPVD#1 - A new map

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ploki122

Senior Member

01-27-2013

A little bump before sleep, I'll also bump the VPVD #2 thread, and maybe create the first poll about the pet. However, due to the low traction it received, I fear that going forward too soon may crash down that VPVD :/.


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ploki122

Senior Member

02-15-2013

I'm just about to create the newest poll, right now the feature list I have is :

So, we came to the conclusion that our map would be 5v5v5 (could still change, but it's our current direction). Before fleshing out the map, I thought that having a list of interesting features to plug in there would make the cohesion much better as well as making the map funner.

So what kind of things would you like? And like always, I'll describe every single options. Please note that the choices may overlaps a little, there has been a little bit less participation this step, and my imagination is limited. Also, please give your opinion if you vote "Other".

Buffs :
Debuffs :
Jungle :
Minion upgrading :
Minion interaction :
Aggressive monsters :
Environmental hazard :
Coop with AI :
Team-wide purchases :
Structure interaction :
Resources gathering :
Limited resources :
Timed games :

Feel free to add anything if you think another feature would be nice. I'll judge whether or not it's a feature (may remove Timed games because of that) and if it's already included in my list, otherwise no discrimination about good/bad ideas...


EDIT : The reason I'm not creating right now is 1) That I'm pissed at failing the creation twice in a row and 2) I want both failed threads to fall down to page 2+ before creating.


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ploki122

Senior Member

02-16-2013

alright, the new poll is up (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3133080)! I'll update this thread very soon to start the next step.


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ploki122

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Polls result :

Buffs are a given. And apparently, so is Environmental Hazards (this one really is more popular than I would expect.)

In the line of could work could not work is : Debuffs, Structure interaction, and aggressive monsters.

We should stay clear of minion interaction of any kinds (apparently, it's not appealing... I kinda loved it :/). Same goes with AI on your team, resources gathering, limited resources, and team wide purchases.


Apparently, a fully-developed jungle is not a must-have. I'll be updating the main thread soon to reflect these results.


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ElMugre

Member

02-25-2013

Capturing a flag is a great idea, it would make the game a bit more tactical because you would need to defend the points and also get the flag for bonus points


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Gonja Ninja

Junior Member

03-13-2013

basically i think you just need to tweak the existing map a little, add different looking jungle creeps in different areas change buffs a little and upgrade overall graphics, ppl dont really want a super change, lots of ppl like the new 3 map and new weapons same game new face a nice change from what theyve been mashing over and over, if you dont believe that just go play mw mw2 mw3 besides graphics a few new weapons the gameplay is spot on the same and the maps are just a bunch of the same stuff different story... point being it works it sells. anything else, maybe upgrade dominion give it a little more oomf, make each base a little more incentive based like taking a red or blue buff your team gets bonuses for having certain places and the circle thing is lame make it giant and harder to get around add another team or maybe 2, like a 5v5x4 teams like 4 person chess... someone once told me that this game is like chess in its maneuvering so if chess can have that many... Also epic jungle creeps that make parts of map unpassable early game... what if you couldnt go up river cause baronesque monster wouldn't allow you to pass unhindered making the passing for a gank or w/e an unlikely idea (monster would need vision though to not give stealth a super advantage) if you add a few of these in a map dont give them super buffs or do w/e but mostly use them as living walls to make you think of other goals besides towers and inhibs. final thing from all these ideas maybe have a game mode like roleplaying where you have to be either demacia based team or noxus you could use the same old 5v5 but it would make it more challenging lessening your team combos.,.idk about that one just a thought.


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ploki122

Senior Member

09-27-2013

Just realized I had already drawn conclusion on the poll ><, I'll restate it a bit later together with adding a few "Ends" that will be featured in the next voting period. I'm also answering any posts I forgot to touch on.

Quote:
Gonja Ninja:
basically i think you just need to tweak the existing map a little, add different looking jungle creeps in different areas change buffs a little and upgrade overall graphics, ppl dont really want a super change, lots of ppl like the new 3 map and new weapons same game new face a nice change from what theyve been mashing over and over, if you dont believe that just go play mw mw2 mw3 besides graphics a few new weapons the gameplay is spot on the same and the maps are just a bunch of the same stuff different story... point being it works it sells.

It does sell, however, it only sells. If you are developping free content to patch onto another existing project, you cannot make it directly conflict with the existing content. If you develop a new 5v5 map which objective is to control the lanes and and push down to kill the enemy nexus, it will inevitably lead to the downfall of SR or that new map.

So, you have to appeal to a different gameplay to actually have a lasting experience. 3v3, 5v5, battlefield-like map control... It's all in diversity that you can expand an existing project.

Quote:
anything else, maybe upgrade dominion give it a little more oomf, make each base a little more incentive based like taking a red or blue buff your team gets bonuses for having certain places and the circle thing is lame make it giant and harder

This is the part I laugh the most about, basically, they simply didn't hype dominion enough / did it badly. everyone is trying to play Dominion as SR. Unfortunately, you can't. However, I do feel that "capturing a point" has too little risk AND reward, but also too little... sensitive shock; You don't feel epic capturing it, you don't risk anything epic by capturing it, and once you have it you don't really feel more epic than before.
Quote:
to get around add another team or maybe 2, like a 5v5x4 teams like 4 person chess... someone once told me that this game is like chess in its maneuvering so if chess can have that many...

This is actually a two-fold problem. First of all, doubling the amount of champions more than doubles the amount of resources needed. Next, yo uneed to be able to accurately communicate how those 20 champions are interacting with each other at every single time. Right now it's even hard to follow some teamfights in 5v5, imagine if you have 2 karthus AoE in there and a Ziggs bomb twice on top of 3 zhonya and 4 GA more.
Quote:
Also epic jungle creeps that make parts of map unpassable early game... what if you couldnt go up river cause baronesque monster wouldn't allow you to pass unhindered making the passing for a gank or w/e an unlikely idea (monster would need vision though to not give stealth a super advantage) if you add a few of these in a map dont give them super buffs or do w/e but mostly use them as living walls to make you think of other goals besides towers and inhibs. final thing from all these ideas maybe have a game mode like roleplaying where you have to be either demacia based team or noxus you could use the same old 5v5 but it would make it more challenging lessening your team combos.,.idk about that one just a thought.

If you add a monster, there has to be an actual incentive to killing it. If it gets you low just killing him, and you only gain a bit of money/xp for yourself, then you actually helped the enemy team more than your own in most cases. Otherwise, thematic battles shouldn't be a game mode imo, but could be used in custom games (which requires more option definitely).


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ploki122

Senior Member

09-27-2013

Where there's an end, there's a mean. that also mean that where there's a mean, there's an end (or you're just wasting time).

So, for the means we have : (+ means suggested, - means possible, this is a non-exhaustive list)
+ Buffs
- Debuffs
+ Jungle
- Minion/Monster upgrading
+ Aggressive Monsters
+ Environmental Hazards
+ Structure interaction

It is also worth noting that the map is to be planned for 3 teams of 4-5 players
Now onto the "end"...

We have multiple possibilities... Of course, it is possible ot have a simple brawl game, where your goal is to pound at their nexus to excavate it from there. On that note, it could be possible to literally excavate teh nexus and bring it back to your base, à la Capture the Flag.

Otherwise, we can choose to have a war of attrition like dominion, where the goal is to gain ground on your opponent(s), and defend that ground.

Although limited resources seemed to be a no-go, there is still the Surival archetype that could be filled, where your goal is pretty simple, Dominate the map and be the last man standing.

So this leads to 3 main directions : Domination, Attrition and Survival.

to those 3 directions, we can tie-in tropes. It is very possible to make a Capture the Flag with all 3 directions :
- Domination : You can capture buildings that reinforce you, the goal is to capture the main base of your enemy OR you have 8 NPC summoners, you need to gather all 6 (or 9 for 3 teams) to win. These can be stolen back.
- Attrition : Capturing nodes give you points, you need X points to win (that's Dominion)
- Survival : You capture pieces of the enemy nexus, and bring them back to your grinder, 4 times kills a team.

Similarly, for a map control mode, all 3 modes are imaginable :
- Domination : Think of Risk
- Attrition : Think of Dominion
- Survival : Think of Hunger Games/Any other last man standing map.

So, shoot away what ideas you may have for directions and/or tropes, as well as what are your interpretations of X/Y/Z directions+trope.


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ploki122

Senior Member

10-02-2013

Alright, here are the few ideas I could come up with up to now. Please keep in mind that those are still way up in the air and that you can add as many as you'd like to that list. Also, for the sake of simplicity, I will list all ideas as if they were 5v5v5, but bear with me that if needed it can be changed to anything ranging from 1v0 to 6player-FFA or 8v4; anything.

1. Domination : This is an SR/TT-like map. Basically, your goal is to stomp the enemy teams. You can do so in multiple way, but in the end it will most probably be by "killing" players, minion, monsters and structures. Also, it's not impossible to have a mix of 2+ ideas. I could probably jot down an idea that included them all and would look cool on paper (and would probably totally suck in reality).

2. King of the Hill : The goal is to hold one or many position(s) for as long as possible. Dominion is considered KotH imo.

3. Capture the flag : Get something, bring it back, rinse, repeat.

4. Goliath : Imagine protect the Soraka, but with Soraka starting with 4+ items and having 10 slots. Basically, you have a giga-minion on your side (but so do they), and your goal is to keep it alive while killing the enemy's (inspired from Smashmuck Champions and Perfect world, both are interesting but still don't quite grasp the MOBA essence like LoL/DotA/Awesomeaut/etc. do imo).

If we look at the current games, I would label each of them this way :
- Protect the Soraka Bot : Goliath.
- Hide And Seek : Capture the Flag
- King of Crystal Scar : King of the Hill
- League of Football : Capture the Flag (well deliver, but FU)
- ARAM/B : Domination
- 5v5/3v3 : Domination
- Dominion : King of the Hill


Basically, what I mean is that once we decide X trope is better, there are still jsut as many way to interpret that one archetype. If anyone wants it, I could probably write a whole thread about why X/Y/Z kind of map wouldn't work based on the number of players and post in a few dozens of map ideas, that are all flawed in some ways. But I disgress.

TL;DR King of the Hill, Domination, Capture the Flag and Goliath are my 4 candidates for the next poll for this VPVD. If yo usee anything (and I truly mean anything) I could've missed, just post it here. All I demand of you is that your post makes sense and is about maps (the map doesn't have to make sense, the purpose of the post simply needs to be clear. Also, please add in why you think it would be nice, and "it's new" doesn't count. A 1v9 map is new and bad.