And still I suck with Shaco... HELP

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Enygm4

Senior Member

01-12-2013

My common problems are
1) I don't know which item pick for do some damage, everytime that I gank I'm not a threat ...
2) Most of the times all the lanes are pushed, I don't know the art of gank under the turret getting safe (with this jungler)
3) Teach me when and when not to use deceive.
4) I'm so squishy so when I try to kill a guy, he faces me and he beat me.
5) Most of the times I have red buff, so when I ult, they know who to hit.

A stream link can be good but most of the videos that I have seen, only shows lucky plays and kill steals with no credit.


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Sylvr

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Senior Member

01-13-2013

I don't have much Shaco experience specifically, but I've definitely been in the same situation as you with other junglers. First off, Melee champions who don't have high-damage abilities often feel like they aren't a threat, but with just offensive masteries and runes, your damage output is more than you think it is, you just have to keep meleeing. You don't have to be stronger than the person you're ganking, you just have to be strong enough to tip the fight into your teammate's favor. You're there to catch the opponent off guard, to add a bit more damage to the trade, and to make sure that you can kill them before they can make it to safety. Shaco is pretty good at all of these if you know how he works.

To get more damage out of Shaco, you have to use his passive correctly. Try to engage from behind your enemy so that your first attack out of Deceive gets the crit damage + 20% more from your passive. The same goes for your E: Try to use it from behind. Most Shacos that I see build Wriggles and Mobility boots first, and then rush a Statikk Shiv. That seems to be enough damage for them during the laning phase, so you should be fine with them too. I suppose you could consider a Brutalizer if you don't like the Shiv route. Whether that turns into Black Cleaver or Yomouu's is up to you. I think both are good on Shaco, depending on what you want to do with him later in the game.

Don't go in unless either, you have a lot higher HP% than your opponent, or your teammate is within range to follow up. To make sure of the 2nd condition, always always always ping the target several times before you go in. Don't count on your teammate to see you sitting in the bush waiting to gank. Sometimes people aren't paying attention to anything besides last-hitting and where their lane opponent is. They might legitimately not see you ready to gank.

As far as when to use Deceive, you generally have to use it to get close to your target, but if you can get to them without it (like if they're about to facecheck into a bush that you're standing in), then you should save it to escape. If you're engaging with your laner, then you should be fine using Deceive to get in, as they are almost certainly going to start running away. If you're not in a safe place (like the enemy jungle), then save Deceive to escape over a wall or into a bush, but if there is nothing around to threaten you (like in your own jungle, hopefully...), then you can use it for mobility or to get around obvious ward spots to get a gank. In general, only use it offensively if you're sure you can kill your target, whether that's in a gank, or if you find the enemy jungler out in the open. Don't be afraid to use 1 Deceive to get into position, and then wait for the CD to go in for the actual gank. Sometimes you might want to jump over the wall in Baron/Dragon pit and gank from the enemy jungle side instead of your own side, or the river. Shaco is flexible like that. It's worth waiting those few extra seconds for the CD to come back up again if it means your gank is more likely to succeed.

As far as being squishy, you just have to learn what your opponents are capable of, and not to jump into someone that can just kill you instantly. Ideally, you won't be alone against someone like that, and you or your laner will have some CC or exhaust to make that damage manageable.

I don't think Shaco is an especially good tower diver. Perhaps if your laner is someone tanky, then maybe they can initiate the dive and you can go in for damage, but overall, I would avoid it with Shaco. If all your lanes are pushed up, then get your closest laner to come with you and go hunt down the enemy jungler and/or steal his camps. Generally, if the enemy lanes are pushed under the tower, they'll be too distracted farming to respond to your own laner going MIA until it's too late. Just remember though, if you're going to counter jungle, ward ward ward. Ward any direction that someone might respond from. Also leave boxes in places that can secure your escape path.

Shaco is all about finding a weak spot in the enemy team, and sticking a knife or 2 in it.


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No worries mate

Senior Member

01-13-2013

1) I don't know which item pick for do some damage, everytime that I gank I'm not a threat ...

I usually start with machete and 5 pots, and build wriggles before boots. Afterwards I build b.greaves for faster jungle clear, but you could go with boots of mobility if you want more frequent ganks. After that you have several different options to continue with, some Shacos like to go with Triforce, Hydra, IE, shiv, or f.mallet, all of which are good choices depending on your play style. Personally I almost always get SotD right after my boots, then usually follow up with either f.mallet or IE. This setup gives me a good mechanism for assassinating people in addition to durability. Try different items and find what works best for you.

Shaco's ganks are most effective after you have acquired both your slow and red buff (I usually try to steal red immediately after I get blu buff). I'd advise not to gank until you have at least either one of these.

2) Most of the times all the lanes are pushed, I don't know the art of gank under the turret getting safe (with this junglier)

Shaco is not a good tower diver due to his squishy nature. Tell your teammates to let the enemy push the lanes back.

3) Teach me when and when not to use deceive.

You normally use deceive either to initiate a fight or to escape your doom. Deceiving over walls is a great way to escape most pursuers or initiate a gank. One thing you don't want to do is deceive into a position which has no way out (for example, deceive to the adc at the back of a team before a fight starts and now you are trapped and will probably die), since you don't have another way to escape.

The main thing is just don't ever waste a deceive, cause when its on cooldown you are a sitting duck.

4) I'm so squishy so when I try to kill a guy, he faces me and he beat me.

Try to pick your fights wisely. It helps to have deceive up, so if you realize you are not going to win a fight you can deceive away. Fight with teammates when possible, and be aware when enemies are not in sight, as they may be ready at any time to help their friend.

5) Most of the times I have red buff, so when I ult, they know who to hit.

One thing you could do is hide out of vision and control your clone so they won't be able to tell if its you.

Hope this helps you. You can add me if you want: No Worries Mate


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TheNickFtw

Senior Member

01-13-2013

Yea if the lanes are too pushed up, ask your teammates to let the enemies push. Otherwise, Shaco will be useless. He's great at destroying squishies especially ADC's so if your bot lane lets the the enemy push, you can pick up easier kills/assists down there.
As for ganking, wait in the bush until a minion wave passes then deceive into the middle of the lane. Throw a box down and immediately start attacking the target. Getting them to run into the box is ideal as if they get feared, you'll almost certainly get a kill or at least force a Flash burn.
Don't try to 1v1 the bruisers early game, they'll simply out-sustain you unless you're fed. Get fed off of the squishes and remember to farm. Shaco has great jungle control and counterjungle abilities, and he can escape with a fair amount of ease.
That's my two cents anyways, good luck!


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Enygm4

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Thanks you all for the replys!
It makes me play so much better, but now I want to ask more.
Berserker Graves was the boots that I've read here, I tried it with movement speed runes masteries (21/00/09) and I was so slow but I don't know if AS is better than MS (partial MS) in 1v1 I think that Berserker Graves is the way to go, but when the game is really hard, with mobility boots I can push the whole lines without be catched, pure juked pushes.
¿Which is the best option? ¿Mobility or Berserker, and when?
¿Movement speed runes/masteries is a bad idea?
¿Should I rush IE after get wriggle's, boots and statikk shiv?
¿Ghost, flash or exhaust?
¿Should I max jack in the box after two-shiv poison?

I know this is too much, but I really want to learn how to play him, with advices of pro players, or experienced players, I was playing 75% of my games with him (still normals, cause I still suck)


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Sylvr

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Senior Member

01-14-2013

It all depends on how you want to play Shaco. Personally, I'm going to play Shaco as a heavy ganker and counter-jungler, so I'm going to go with Mobility boots almost all the time. If you do build Mobility boots though, you need to make sure you're using them. Constantly be on the move looking for something to do. Get in their jungle and take their camps or set up ambushes or camp their squishy lanes. I would only get Berserker's if you intend on farming a lot and/or sticking around the same general area of the map for a majority of the game (like if you're just going to camp bot-side jungle and gank their mid and bot constantly, and never go up top).

Currently, I'm trying out both MS Quints and the Tier1 MS Mastery in utility just because I want to be everywhere at all times. I don't yet know if that's going to be my final build though. The only other Quints I would be likely to use would be AD, and I feel like I probably don't need those. Mana Regen would be my other Mastery option, but, again, I don't think I'll need it with Shaco.

It's always hard to say what items to build on a champ, because sometimes the best option changes depending on the game. I don't think I'd build an IE that early unless I was getting extremely fed. I'd probably go for some CDR and Utility first, such as Ghostblade, Blade of the Ruined King, or maybe even a Cleaver. My next item after Shiv (Maybe before Shiv, depending on my goals in that game) would probably be a Brutalizer item.

I feel that CDR is really important on Shaco. None of his abilities other than ult get any Cooldown scaling, so you have the same CDs later in the game as you do at the very start. As the game goes on, you have to disengage and re-engage more often, and you will have to deal with more people at the same time. Having Boxes and Deceive more often will go a long way.

The only summoners I would even consider on Shaco are Exhaust or Ignite. Flash is kind of wasted since he already has Deceive on a 6.6-11 second cooldown (depending on CDR). As for Ghost, you already have a built in slow and Deceive to keep up with them (and boxes behind him, ideally), and you wouldn't be using it to escape either, since you already have better tools. Exhaust helps with all of the above in addition to helping you 1v1 kill people, and survive ganks against high burst champions (Just think about trying to gank a Syndra or something without CC or Exhaust... You're going to die quick without something to control that damage). I don't like Ignite quite as much since it has less utility, but it is ranged and True Damage, and it will help you bully around a weaker jungler I suppose.