Abuse of the reporting system

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LittleDi

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy Meadows View Post
for one you weren't making 20k for 20 years, if you were i pity you for being at such a crappy job that after 20 years you haven't gotten a raise, so my suspicions are that either you're lying, or you're lying, in which case both are true
I don't work full time. I don't need to. I actually have enough to purchase a new car this year as well. I used to work full time and bring in 40k a year. But to be fair I technically made 22k with 1060 hours of work. In other words I make more than 20 dollars an hour. UPS has good pay, terrific benefits, but very bad work hours. I work from 4am to 8am when doing a light workload day. I only work 5 days a week. I get 4 weeks of paid vacation. I have many optional days. I did not work to my fullest extent this year. I could of easily cleared 25k this year if I worked more on specific days that I chose not to because I didn't want to.

But you said that I would never see how much money you paid in tuition. My LIGHT estimate is 400k is the amount of money I have seen in my life. You didn't say that it was less. So unless you've been going to 6 years of college at one of the most expensive *edit*schools I've already reached your tuition. I'm only 36, thus I have 20 years of work left ahead of me easily. So exactly what was your tuition costs?

Pardon my edit...

Secondary edit:

I guess you won't answer... but my searches for current tuition costs for a biologist is in the range of 50k per year of education. That would be less than the 400k+ I've earned in my lifetime even if you've made 6 years of school. Your guess was either that I am a liar, or I am a liar... But I've put my numbers out without knowing what yours could of been beforehand. How about you back yours up now?


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Desperado Dave

Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoinTBlanK86 View Post
He won't quote, because you didn't say anything bad. You didn't even cuss.
Thank you for the support Pointblank, while I am aware they wont shorten my suspension, anyone else think that the exact reasoning for the bans should be provided to the players? Its fairly difficult to change your "incorrect" in game behavior when you are simply provided with the summoners code link but the report card system is a step in the right direction atleast. Problem is, when players are getting banned for something mild at worst while trying to win the game and get their team to work together with no specifics on what was so terrible as to deserve a 2 week suspension. At the very least I would like to see a standardized reason for the suspension, ie "negative behavior" "cursing" "intentional feeding" or one of the standard ways you report other players. Why have a riot member spend the time to look over the reasoning of a suspension if they wont provide reasoning, why look over it all at that point? Providing a link to the summoners code is not giving players tools to fix the incorrect behavior


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Filthy Meadows

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimKelley View Post
Hello Dave <HAL voice>


Before I go on to discuss the specific case, I think you have some valid points.

It would be nice if there was a more temporal correlation between the reported games and the punishments doled out. However, I believe the reason this is not so is for a couple reasons: 1. People might not play often yet still be toxic, 2. The process of the Tribunal likely takes a little time, and 3. More intense punishments require support to actually review the case.

I think the desire to have a more explicit code is understandable. However, Riot has specifically made the code somewhat vague so that community can make its own determinations as to toxicity/poor behavior. That said, the reasoning behind the code has been explicitly stated by Riot employees as "Don't be a Jerk".


As to the specific case, here is my analysis. I have a 90% accuracy rating when I follow what I believe to be the will of the community of a whole (goes down to 85% or less when I follow my own inclination). I want to make clear that I am trying to explain why people would push punish. The punish vote may or may not be valid, but you cannot, at this point, afford to care whether the Tribunal is valid (unless you do not care about permabans) because these are going to be the same people that might vote next time. You might also consider that, at this point, you just want to avoid getting reported. Your chance of getting punished is very high once a Tribunal case is created.

Game 1:
The giving up can be considered assisting the enemy team. Specifically "well im going to just charge down mid now" probably garnered a number of instapunish votes because it definitely looks like intentionally feeding (even if you didn't do so, saying you are going to do so is a bad idea). Calling for other people to be reported is seen by many as negative behavior. If you think someone needs a report, just report them. Don't make a big production about it, don't tell people they're getting reported.

Game 2:
"Malzahar [00:16:13] hes so much better than kayle with the wards and ****
Malzahar [00:16:24] hes clearing them with oracles"

If I were in this situation, I'd say "The wards are being cleared by XXX person because they have oracles. Do you have the cash to get an Oracle"? Or, if pressed for time "Wards taken down by guy with oracle. Don't want to waste money. Sorry".

The point is that you shouldn't turn things into a personal attack.
Other examples:
"dude this ez is throwing intentionally"
He wasn't playing the way you wanted him too. It happens. Don't say that people are throwing intentionally. Calling people Useless is insulting. It may be true. Still not a good idea to say it. I think many people are abject morons, I refrain from saying it to them in game or in real life.

Also notice that you called for other people to report EZ. I really would avoid this were I you.

Game 3:
Talking about the Diana to the enemy team. Irelia was a jerk and I dearly hope she gets what is coming to her, but you cant afford to respond to jerks. You definitely can't afford to say "and that was dumb as hell irelia". Not really a game where the punish vote came from.

Game 4.

Calling Xerath bad. Just avoid saying anything about your teammates that is negative. The "Xerath STFU" probably hurt you because it appeared to come out of no where. Even so, a simple "please stop pinging" and then muting him when he doesn't stop (without saying so in chat/making a production out of it) would have been better here.

Conclusion: I have explained the reasons you were likely reported, which you should avoid like the plague in the future because it's likely you're close to a permaban if this was a 2-week ban. However, I would guess that the two games that hurt you the most were game one (the comment implying the intention to intentionally feed) and Game 3 (calling someone "Useless").

TLDR Things to avoid:
1.Talking about your team in a negative fashion to the other team or talking about the other team in a negative fashion in all chat.
2. Saying that the game is over/implying that you are going to feed or play poorly.
3. Telling someone they are muted or asking for them to be reported.
4. Saying anything to your teammate that questions their skill, intention to win, or is insulting. Even if they deserve it.
5. Responding to jerks for any reason.


I hope you find my analysis useful. Good Luck!

tribunal members worth keeping around, very insightful


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Desperado Dave

Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimKelley View Post
Hello Dave <HAL voice>


Before I go on to discuss the specific case, I think you have some valid points.

It would be nice if there was a more temporal correlation between the reported games and the punishments doled out. However, I believe the reason this is not so is for a couple reasons: 1. People might not play often yet still be toxic, 2. The process of the Tribunal likely takes a little time, and 3. More intense punishments require support to actually review the case.

I think the desire to have a more explicit code is understandable. However, Riot has specifically made the code somewhat vague so that community can make its own determinations as to toxicity/poor behavior. That said, the reasoning behind the code has been explicitly stated by Riot employees as "Don't be a Jerk".


As to the specific case, here is my analysis. I have a 90% accuracy rating when I follow what I believe to be the will of the community of a whole (goes down to 85% or less when I follow my own inclination). I want to make clear that I am trying to explain why people would push punish. The punish vote may or may not be valid, but you cannot, at this point, afford to care whether the Tribunal is valid (unless you do not care about permabans) because these are going to be the same people that might vote next time. You might also consider that, at this point, you just want to avoid getting reported. Your chance of getting punished is very high once a Tribunal case is created.

Game 1:
The giving up can be considered assisting the enemy team. Specifically "well im going to just charge down mid now" probably garnered a number of instapunish votes because it definitely looks like intentionally feeding (even if you didn't do so, saying you are going to do so is a bad idea). Calling for other people to be reported is seen by many as negative behavior. If you think someone needs a report, just report them. Don't make a big production about it, don't tell people they're getting reported.

Game 2:
"Malzahar [00:16:13] hes so much better than kayle with the wards and ****
Malzahar [00:16:24] hes clearing them with oracles"

If I were in this situation, I'd say "The wards are being cleared by XXX person because they have oracles. Do you have the cash to get an Oracle"? Or, if pressed for time "Wards taken down by guy with oracle. Don't want to waste money. Sorry".

The point is that you shouldn't turn things into a personal attack.
Other examples:
"dude this ez is throwing intentionally"
He wasn't playing the way you wanted him too. It happens. Don't say that people are throwing intentionally. Calling people Useless is insulting. It may be true. Still not a good idea to say it. I think many people are abject morons, I refrain from saying it to them in game or in real life.

Also notice that you called for other people to report EZ. I really would avoid this were I you.

Game 3:
Talking about the Diana to the enemy team. Irelia was a jerk and I dearly hope she gets what is coming to her, but you cant afford to respond to jerks. You definitely can't afford to say "and that was dumb as hell irelia". Not really a game where the punish vote came from.

Game 4.

Calling Xerath bad. Just avoid saying anything about your teammates that is negative. The "Xerath STFU" probably hurt you because it appeared to come out of no where. Even so, a simple "please stop pinging" and then muting him when he doesn't stop (without saying so in chat/making a production out of it) would have been better here.

Conclusion: I have explained the reasons you were likely reported, which you should avoid like the plague in the future because it's likely you're close to a permaban if this was a 2-week ban. However, I would guess that the two games that hurt you the most were game one (the comment implying the intention to intentionally feed) and Game 3 (calling someone "Useless").

TLDR Things to avoid:
1.Talking about your team in a negative fashion to the other team or talking about the other team in a negative fashion in all chat.
2. Saying that the game is over/implying that you are going to feed or play poorly.
3. Telling someone they are muted or asking for them to be reported.
4. Saying anything to your teammate that questions their skill, intention to win, or is insulting. Even if they deserve it.
5. Responding to jerks for any reason.


I hope you find my analysis useful. Good Luck!
Excellent response and I will use this in the future. Any idea of if there is a way to get further away from any type of permanent ban. I heard somewhere after 3 months your ban aggro basically goes down when you are not reported is there any validity to that statement? Not because I plan on going to games and cursing people out after that is lowered. Simply being warned from behavior is far simpler to address than being suspended or banned with no reason given unless you get someone to post back to you on the forums. Of all the people posting, your response was the most reasonable and it is greatly appreciated. While I feel justified in calling someone whos afked useless for afking I will avoid it in the future as well as stating I will charge down mid lane despite not actually doing it.
Thanks


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baerog

Junior Member

01-12-2013

To be honest, I find that most people who report people in this game report people for doing something that is equivalent to being pinched, sure it was rude, but is it really worth taking the person out of the game, does the person who got called a "noob feeder" by their jungler really take that to heart and feel so sad they don't want to play anymore. Sure op can be rude sometimes, but when someone is sitting in the base as in game two, when they're pushing, as Little Di said "what an ******* you are" he's not being a jerk, the person who is sitting in the base doing nothing while the enemy team pushes clearly needs to learn somehow that he should probably do something, maybe not by swearing at them, but if this were real life for example and someone was breaking into your car and you saw a bunch of people just standing around, wouldn't you respond harshly. Obviously there's a difference, but when people have an apparent lack of caring for winning it really does piss the people that are trying off.

On the point of swearing, people appear to report for swearing very casually, if someone says for example "omg, this kat is so **cking fed", not blaming anyone of saying anything else people will report you for swearing, and for some unknown reason to me, people in tribunal punish. I hate to sound cliche, but I almost feel like if you can't handle seeing a single swear word, that's not even directed at anyone, you honestly shouldn't be playing a computer game, or at least an online one. Riot should seriously look into reducing their need to cater to the people that think swearing is such a terrible thing that you should burn in hell for it. Those people need to learn the fact that in the real world, people will swear(or yell) at you if you do something wrong and stupid. I blame the new parents who coddle their children to much and block them from the harshness of reality, people are inherently selfish and rude, and if you don't like it then don't interact with the outside world.

Same with negative attitude, every lanes losing and someone says "well, this game is basically over" and people will report you for negative attitude. The fact is, a good player will be able to tell when a game is lost, there is a point in every game at which the team that will win is decided, excluding things like afker or super lucky plays.

IMO most people report in league if someone does something they don't like, if a jungler fails a gank, or if a jungler focuses on ganking mid more instead of bot, or even if they aren't building the same way as you do and they have a negative kd, they'll scour the chat looking for something they can report that person for. And tribunal reporters will probably first look at the suspects kda, then look at the chat to see if they swore even once, then hit punish, because they know that somebody else will have hit punish and they want their ip.

Now before someone says something, no I have never been banned/warned for language, and to all those people out there who get banned for stupid things, I honestly feel sorry for you and my advice is that once you get past level 25, everyone is a jerk who swears at everyone, so no one can report anyone because they're making the same offense as you, so just hold your rage in until then. haha


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LittleDi

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperado Dave View Post
Excellent response and I will use this in the future. Any idea of if there is a way to get further away from any type of permanent ban. I heard somewhere after 3 months your ban aggro basically goes down when you are not reported is there any validity to that statement? Not because I plan on going to games and cursing people out after that is lowered. Simply being warned from behavior is far simpler to address than being suspended or banned with no reason given unless you get someone to post back to you on the forums. Of all the people posting, your response was the most reasonable and it is greatly appreciated. While I feel justified in calling someone whos afked useless for afking I will avoid it in the future as well as stating I will charge down mid lane despite not actually doing it.
Thanks
It is not related to time. It is related to games. You can leave for 6 months and come back being exactly as toxic and it will remain the same speed of games played.


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KimKelley

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperado Dave View Post
. Any idea of if there is a way to get further away from any type of permanent ban. I heard somewhere after 3 months your ban aggro basically goes down when you are not reported is there any validity to that statement?

I do know there is a certain amount of decay in the system. Riot has said as much specifically. If you go for long enough without getting into the Tribunal level of being reported, the amount of punishment for your next "Punish" is reduced (with the exceptions of Riot-specific punishments for extremely egregious offenses). I do not know the specific amount of time required, however, and I assume that Riot has not explicitly released the time frame because it would be counter to the behavioral modification intentions to release it. It may also be related to the frequency of reports over a certain number of games (although I just assume this latter bit of information due to the logic behind it rather than having this information directly from Riot).

I should also note that Riot also specifically reviews a larger number of your games when considering a permaban. Lyte has also stated that Riot is normally a harsher judge than the Tribunal.

As to feeling justified in calling people out on AFKs/bad play/being jerks, it's likely the thing that causes most people to end up in the Tribunal and the hardest thing for people to prevent themselves from doing (myself included).

Good luck.


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PoinTBlanK86

Member

01-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperado Dave View Post
Thank you for the support Pointblank, while I am aware they wont shorten my suspension, anyone else think that the exact reasoning for the bans should be provided to the players? Its fairly difficult to change your "incorrect" in game behavior when you are simply provided with the summoners code link but the report card system is a step in the right direction atleast. Problem is, when players are getting banned for something mild at worst while trying to win the game and get their team to work together with no specifics on what was so terrible as to deserve a 2 week suspension. At the very least I would like to see a standardized reason for the suspension, ie "negative behavior" "cursing" "intentional feeding" or one of the standard ways you report other players. Why have a riot member spend the time to look over the reasoning of a suspension if they wont provide reasoning, why look over it all at that point? Providing a link to the summoners code is not giving players tools to fix the incorrect behavior
Not at all, especially when the 'Summoner's Code' is incomplete and not nearly descriptive or complete enough to cover what all you truly CAN and CAN'T be banned for. Besides that there are catch 22's in the system. You're screwed if you do, and you're screwed if you don't. You respond to players harassing you and try to reason with them, but are seen as being 'negative' back to them. You get suspended. So you stop using the chat function all together, and you get banned for failure to communicate with your team. Sounds like Riot found a way to ban anyone for anything. AmIright? Is anyone else hearing the words "Account Scheming" besides me?


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Desperado Dave

Member

01-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoinTBlanK86 View Post
Not at all, especially when the 'Summoner's Code' is incomplete and not nearly descriptive or complete enough to cover what all you truly CAN and CAN'T be banned for. Besides that there are catch 22's in the system. You're screwed if you do, and you're screwed if you don't. You respond to players harassing you and try to reason with them, but are seen as being 'negative' back to them. You get suspended. So you stop using the chat function all together, and you get banned for failure to communicate with your team. Sounds like Riot found a way to ban anyone for anything. AmIright? Is anyone else hearing the words "Account Scheming" besides me?
Account scheming? Im not sure about that, but it does seem logical that they want the servers to appear as if they are serving more people and banning players that consistently play such as a player with 2000 wins in just over a year would increase even if by just one their account count. Financially tho I would not expect anyone who is banned to ever send money on the game again for fear of wasting it by being banned for mild activity.