How are permanent bans and allowing players to re-roll not contradictory?

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SchierkeWiking

Senior Member

01-12-2013

IP bans don't work. Most people have variable IPs now a days. How do you suggest that Riot prevents this sort of people from making another account?


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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01-12-2013
1 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansin View Post
I think you are missing the point though. Riot doesn't want to permanently ban players, just accounts. Talk to support, they encourage "toxic players" to make another account and play again.

I don't know how Riot has turned something that could be positive (punishing trolling/leaving behavior) and turned it into "ban people that say things we don't like".
The player behavior team has been working with our Player Support to ensure that we never encourage toxic players to make a new account. There are no more "Last Chance" programs or "Second Chance" programs, we simply don't want toxic players to play our game--especially after they've been given half a dozen or more chances.

Bans are not the ideal solution and we know this; however, for the short-term, permanent bans are better than nothing because we are still taking away a player's runes/champions and time. We'll be working on alternatives to bans in the future.


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LittleDi

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The player behavior team has been working with our Player Support to ensure that we never encourage toxic players to make a new account. There are no more "Last Chance" programs or "Second Chance" programs, we simply don't want toxic players to play our game--especially after they've been given half a dozen or more chances.

Bans are not the ideal solution and we know this; however, for the short-term, permanent bans are better than nothing because we are still taking away a player's runes/champions and time. We'll be working on alternatives to bans in the future.
Seems I was right when I said they are not encouraging people who are toxic to make new accounts.


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Zelo Omega

Junior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The player behavior team has been working with our Player Support to ensure that we never encourage toxic players to make a new account. There are no more "Last Chance" programs or "Second Chance" programs, we simply don't want toxic players to play our game--especially after they've been given half a dozen or more chances.

Bans are not the ideal solution and we know this; however, for the short-term, permanent bans are better than nothing because we are still taking away a player's runes/champions and time. We'll be working on alternatives to bans in the future.
As someone who is a lead in the customer service department at my job and oversees the team that handles ban appeals (and subsequently the team that handles bans) I can totally understand this. Bans are never the ideal situation and we know that, no matter how toxic someone may be, that a ban really puts a sour note and can ruin someone's day. Bans are always a very, very last resort for users, but if we have to place one down, it's because we really don't want you back on our site because you're causing problems.

So props to you all at Riot, it's always refreshing to see other staff with similar ideals.


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Duriel

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Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The player behavior team has been working with our Player Support to ensure that we never encourage toxic players to make a new account. There are no more "Last Chance" programs or "Second Chance" programs, we simply don't want toxic players to play our game--especially after they've been given half a dozen or more chances.

Bans are not the ideal solution and we know this; however, for the short-term, permanent bans are better than nothing because we are still taking away a player's runes/champions and time. We'll be working on alternatives to bans in the future.
what if they prove they've literally dropped every ounce of toxicity from their attitude and show to be one of the top opposite-of-toxic players?
in a case like this, would you ever consider dropping some of the time ban on their original account? or will they have to deal and continue to be a good person on their new alias?

*given of course they realized their account was banned and they still wished to play but with a new look on the game. you get the point though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchierkeWiking View Post
IP bans don't work. Most people have variable IPs now a days. How do you suggest that Riot prevents this sort of people from making another account?
plus they don't want to ban pc bangs, colleges, etc from playing just because one person ruined the experience of others.
it's better to just force them to restart their whole account by banning their main, if they want to continue to play.


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Arizel

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Senior Member

01-12-2013

Well, Riot can and should ban by the account, smurfs, and the account holder's computer's MAC address which is alot harder to "change" than your IP address, If they want to be thorough with the permanent ban. If the computer used was not actually owned by the perpetrator, or riot receives complaints from owners of PC Shops and Educational facilities, then they can unban those specific computers at the requests of those businesses and institutions. In addtion, PC Shops and Universities can in fact track down who was using what computer.

Back when I was at U of I, We had a floor meeting wherein our R.A. informed the floor that someone or someones have been illegally downloading large quantities of things from the pirate bay and warned that if these/that person/people did not stop they would suspend that person's internet priviledges on the school network for the entire semester in addition to heavy fines and such. Well, the perpetrator did not believe him and was caught a month later and was punished. They have the software to track them down folks. The real question here is Ethics.


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Snido

Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizel View Post
Well, Riot can and should ban by the account, smurfs, and the account holder's computer's MAC address which is alot harder to "change" than your IP address, If they want to be thorough with the permanent ban. If the computer used was not actually owned by the perpetrator, or riot receives complaints from owners of PC Shops and Educational facilities, then they can unban those specific computers at the requests of those businesses and institutions. In addtion, PC Shops and Universities can in fact track down who was using what computer.

.

Why would they want to do that when they stand to make money hand over fist by permabanning people and having them make new accounts? Think about it.


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Alice Twilight

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Senior Member

01-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The player behavior team has been working with our Player Support to ensure that we never encourage toxic players to make a new account. There are no more "Last Chance" programs or "Second Chance" programs, we simply don't want toxic players to play our game--especially after they've been given half a dozen or more chances.

Bans are not the ideal solution and we know this; however, for the short-term, permanent bans are better than nothing because we are still taking away a player's runes/champions and time. We'll be working on alternatives to bans in the future.
'Prison' Server where toxic players are matched with only other toxic players?


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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01-13-2013
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snido View Post
Why would they want to do that when they stand to make money hand over fist by permabanning people and having them make new accounts? Think about it.
Actually, if we're permabanning you we don't want your money or your time. Just find another game.


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warriormonkey03

Senior Member

01-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Actually, if we're permabanning you we don't want your money or your time. Just find another game.
I've found that most of the bans given out aren't even on mains anymore. I report people in games and have read tribunals with toxic players saying they aren't on their main or bragging about "x" number of permabans received.

Toxic players are getting smarter and you may end up banning their main once but after that they tend to troll on smurf accounts and make level 10-30 be an excruciatingly aggravating experience. In fact, i would even argue that tribunal hurts genuine players more than toxic players from the large amount of trolls who spam report buttons for no reason and the tribunal users who spam punish (though tribunal seems to have gotten "more correct" recently)


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