2 players taking mid point. When does it stop?

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AlphaFerric

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloquid View Post
Hey I just lost 3 games in a row, accidentally in every one of them 2 ppl were taking mid or going bot. 1.st game: The person was laughing at me after pleading for only 1 mid, arguing there's no mid on dominion. Even after pinging on mid point and explaining it to him. Of course that one was helping Tarric to take mid. 2nd game: Karthus with Smite taking mid with partner. 3rd game: Caitlyn who asked while waiting in the base is she ap or ad champ. She went bot with other player.
I'm gonna take a break now and work on my approach a little and try to see those people as visionaries, not as complete noobs n' trolls who are comming to Dominion just to tryout new champs and practice their jungling skills.
I never said anything about treating people who try different strategies as visionaries. What I will say is it is a great idea in solo queue to ask if a specific player can cap mid while the rest go top before the gates open. If someone wants to help them grab that point they'll probably say something since you asked. Communication and teamwork is one of your most valuable tools in this mode, right up there with revive

If someone is trying something you see as odd, ask them about it! If they have an idea in mind they may be willing to share it to hear others thoughts on the matter. There may not be time in the match for it due to Dom's pace, but there is post game chat and friend requesting as well. If they don't know what they are doing, or don't respond when you ask, give them some direction with helpful, non-spammy pings, and places you think they will be most helpful at.


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Eloquid

Senior Member

01-12-2013

That's another idealistic notion. If only it were so easy. No amount of explaining and communicating seems to get me above 30% of games in which there's no unproductive capturing the mid or bot with 2 players. Most of the time I'm laughed at for even mentioning the mid, which doesn't exist on Dominion. I'm just asking, what number of games or win loss ratio do you need to have in order to get rid of people who don't know what's mid on Dominion, importance of top as key point and who don't rage at you and call you a noob because you took Revive. That's all I'm asking.


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AlphaFerric

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Its not really a set number. In general being above a 50-55% win ratio with a large volume of games played (think 1000 games) would put you in a range where you typically see full revive on both sides. With a small number of games played this kind of thing is harder to pin down as each game contributes more to your overall elo. Ex: say you had 200 wins and 100 losses, 100 more wins than losses, probably a fairly high elo. Say you had 1200 wins and 1100 losses, the ratio moves a lot closer to 50% because you nearly have the same number if wins as losses despite being at the same 100 win difference (ex, the first implies you are getting good fast, the second implies you are getting good slowly).


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AgaresOaks

Member

01-12-2013

The problem with 2 top 2 mid 1 bot is that the gold advantage is marginal, and you're banking on top somehow holding 3v2 until you can briefly turn it into a 4v3 before their mid joins in. Further, BOTH of these elements have diminishing returns. Cappers beyond the first are reduced to 20% (not by 20%, TO 20%) workload and give only 50% of the gold of a single capper (and the gold is still split evenly, so the gold is also less concentrated). For the record, your edges are 50 gold and two seconds of 4v3.

Disregarding THAT and just looking at map state, even the most obnoxious point holders have extreme trouble holding a neutral point outnumbered, so you're also very likely to actually outright lose top point because they cap it before your two mid can get top IIRC. At whch point THEY can have an obnoxious point holder on their point.

The final kick is that this is not hidden information. They can SEE two people capping your mid.

Basically, it is bad on every front.

2 top 1 mid 1 bot 1 hidden ganking bot has discussable merits (definitely so if one of the bots doesn't have revive for some reason), but even that is pretty situational because of how much down time the ganker has. (sending one bot with the revive is less situational)


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Eloquid

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgaresOaks View Post
The problem with 2 top 2 mid 1 bot is that the gold advantage is marginal, and you're banking on top somehow holding 3v2 until you can briefly turn it into a 4v3 before their mid joins in. Further, BOTH of these elements have diminishing returns. Cappers beyond the first are reduced to 20% (not by 20%, TO 20%) workload and give only 50% of the gold of a single capper (and the gold is still split evenly, so the gold is also less concentrated). For the record, your edges are 50 gold and two seconds of 4v3.

Disregarding THAT and just looking at map state, even the most obnoxious point holders have extreme trouble holding a neutral point outnumbered, so you're also very likely to actually outright lose top point because they cap it before your two mid can get top IIRC. At whch point THEY can have an obnoxious point holder on their point.

The final kick is that this is not hidden information. They can SEE two people capping your mid.

Basically, it is bad on every front.

2 top 1 mid 1 bot 1 hidden ganking bot has discussable merits (definitely so if one of the bots doesn't have revive for some reason), but even that is pretty situational because of how much down time the ganker has. (sending one bot with the revive is less situational)
Man, I really think there's lot of wisdom here, but I don't understand one word of what you're talking about. Please enlighten me in simplest possible words


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Catnium

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-16-2013

wow people still use lol matches .. that's like trying to saw a plank with a broken and outdated hammer


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FDru

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
@FDru
What? I don't get it.


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