S3 items for multi target AP users

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danwilson

Senior Member

01-10-2013

I've read about the new items available and I'm not sure what to do. I usually play AP champs with area effect abilities, so Xerath, Viktor, Karma, Orianna...

I'm looking for feedback from players that have tried these champions with the new items.

I think the new AP items benefit Ryze the most, as most are AP/mana items that multiple damage with the greatest effect being on single target spells. For example, Ryze with a Iceborne Gauntlet, Liandry's Torment, Muramana, Seraph's Embrace could spit out 723+10% current health with one Q, then he has an enhanced normal attack (IBG and Mura), W does 737+10% current health. Another enhanced normal attack and his Q is ready again... sigh... That's without a Rabadons, but assuming level 18.

AP assassins probably benefit next most. However, they were already strong in S2. I certainly couldn't go toe-to-toe with any of them and expect to win. I had to wear them down and hide under a turret hoping my jungler was near.

I'm thinking I have to change my item builds a bit, but I'm not sure where to start.

I'll start with Xerath. Interesting to play, but he's only truly dangerous with his ult available, otherwise he just slowly wears down opponents with long range Arcanopulses. My S2 build was an AP build for long range ability use: Sorc Shoes, Rylais (the slow made it harder to dodge his abilities), Rabadons, Athenes (mana engine and CDR), Void Staff, and DFG. My Q will do about 708 damage.

Under S3, I've lost about 15 AP using that build, but I'm concerned I won't have late game presence compared to Ryze and AP assassins. My build goals are maxing my CDR and AP damage. I'm thinking of the following build. Please note that this is untested.

Boots: Sorc Shoes or Boots of Swiftness/Boots of Mobility
Sorc Shoes are nice. But the extra speed from BoS/BoM make ganking top and bottom easier. It depends on how top/bottom lanes are doing.

Rylais and Rabadons: The health/slow of Rylais is too useful to ignore.

Morellonomicon: I'm considering replacing Athene's with this for the extra AP and CDR. Not a fan of Athene's nerf.

Liandry's Torment: In conjunction with Rylai's, I might get 10% current health damage with Mage Chains. Probably replacing the Void Staff with this as magic resistance has been nerfed.

DFG: The 100 AP and magic damage amplification is hard to ignore, although the range is too short for Xerath in general.

All together, that's another 25 AP over my S2 build, and my Locus/30 Magic Pen should be enough to still do significant damage. Also, Liandry's adds more damage, between 2.5-10% of current health. I have lost some mana regen by getting rid of Athenes.

Not a lot of feasible alternatives here. CDR is only feasible from the Morellonomicon, Athene's, and DFG. I think Rylai's and Rabadons are requirements for Xerath as a long range ability user. Add boots, and you have a single slot left that I've chosen Liandry's for. Liandry's is the one item I could see swapping out for something situationally.

Alternatives for Liandry's would be a Void Staff, Seraph's Embrace, maybe a Rod of Ages or a defensive item.

Orianna build

My S2 Orianna build was Sorc Shoes, Rabadon's, Frozen Mallet (better slow and health than Rylais), Hextech Gunblade, Lich Bane, DFG (Nashor's Tooth if I don't get blue buff)

The idea behind Frozen Mallet is that I can slow a target with a non-missing autoattack, then use my abilities on the slowed target. Generally, I focused on AP for her passive and try to mix up autoattacks and abilities, especially with Lich Bane. I came up with this after trying several item builds on a spreadsheet, and I'm happy with the in-game performance.

S3 changes affect the Frozen Mallet, but it still appears to be a better choice than Rylais, with twice the slow. The Hextech Gunblade looks even more useful now with the reduced CD.

New items that might be better could include the Iceborn Gauntlet, which has the best slow (2x duration and most effect). I'm also pondering a Seraph's Embrace/Muramana combo for almost 75 attack damage, almost 875 point shield, around 105 points to AP, etc, etc...

S3 proposed build: Sorc Shoes, Rabadons, Iceborn Gauntlet, Seraph's Embrace, Muramana

Last item: I'm leaning towards Nashor's Tooth for the attack speed/AP/CDR. I'll have to update my spreadsheet and try a few options.

Viktor Build

My current Viktor build was based on providing utility over raw AP: Power Augment, Sorcerer Shoes, Rylai’s Crystal Scepter, Hextech Gunblade, Lich Bane, Deathfire Grasp

If Blue Buff isn't available, I'd swap the DFG for Nashor's Tooth or Athene's.

Power Augment and Rylais made for easy escapes and kiting. Along with Gravity Field, I was very survivable, which I find more important than raw damage. Usually I'd alternate Power Transfer and autoattacks unless a teamfight erupted.

For S3 Viktor, I think I want to try an Iceborn Gauntlet/Muramana/Seraph's Embrace build for the same reasons as Orianna. Add some boots, that leaves a single item slot, which I think I need to fill with a health item. Possibly Liandry's and Power Augment would be enough health. That should provide a better effect for Power Transfer/Autoattacks than my S2 build...

I'm expecting some severe nerfs for these new items in the next couple months.

Note: I'm still working on this, discussing possible changes to my S2 builds for other champions.


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Valor And Quinn

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Senior Member

01-10-2013

Dont get liandry on xerath is what I suggest
Another high ap item to replace it


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danwilson

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkanz1337 View Post
Dont get liandry on xerath is what I suggest
Another high ap item to replace it
Liandry's value is in the combination of AP and magic pen. The health and passive are nice bonuses, but the new magic pen system means Xerath turns 100 magic resist into 30 by subtracting 40% in his Locus, -30 from Liandry's and Sorc Shoes. Anything under 50 magic resist becomes true damage.

Removing Liandry's reduces that to anything under 25 magic resist, so it is nice to double up with sorc shoes.

100 damage after applying Magic Resist
MR w/ Liandry's w/o Liandry's
50 100 86
100 77 68.9

So you'd need a huge AP boost over Liandry's to make up for the 10% increase in damage the extra magic pen at 100 MR, plus Liandry's 2.5-10% passive damage boost. Since most melee champs have something like 52.5 Magic Resist at level 18 before items, Liandry's makes a lot of sense for raw damage.


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PapaShongo53

Senior Member

01-10-2013

I haven't played Xerath much in S3, but I went Chalice, Sorc Boots, Liandrys and ended up doing the most damage to champions in the game despite falling behind early.

I like Liandry's on Xerath because it's awesome for poking. With grail I can spam Q's all day, and as long as we aren't full engaging right away I can do some serious damage with that %HP burn to the front lines before the fight even starts.


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danwilson

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Thanks for the feedback, PS53... I've been working overseas, so I haven't played since October, haven't tried any of the new stuff out...

I'm suspecting I'll still need Athene's over the Morellonomicon for enough mana if I can't get blue buff...


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

01-10-2013

I agree with what you said. With his 40% mpen, the value of a void staff will be questionable, vs having Flat MPen from liandries plus the doubled-up passive thx to Rylais.

As you said, DFG kind of sucks for its ability, but the CDR and high AP is hard to ignore.

Theres really nothing else, except maybe an Hourglass which is suboptimal.