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The directions of Thresh's E should be reversed

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EnvyDragon

Recruiter

01-13-2013

Quote:
Ragequitternob:
Im using smart cast and when using vector abilities like rumble 's ullti it is super hard to control so .. better not use a vector targeting system


Hold R, drag mouse. Vector solved.

I actually LOVE the way it works with smartcast. It feels like playing Fruit Ninja or something on iPod.


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EzraTwitch

Senior Member

01-13-2013

Read CertainlyT's response. . .yea, this still needs to happen.


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Raisu

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
I will probably not design a vector ability until we improve our vector interface (this is on the agenda btw!). I just feel vector is too hard to control.

Facing is also problematic. If you play nidalee, you'll understand what I'm saying -- champions change facing direction in our game a lot (espeically when around minions) without the player having much sense of control over it.


Im a little curious about the difficulties players face with vector abilities (victors E, rumbles R etc if i am not mistaken). I'll admit at first i found some difficulty simply due to it being new, but it didnt take long to get used to fastcasting those abilities.


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Bees

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
This is a great discussion! A lot of my co-designers wanted me to reverse the ability. It was tempting to follow their advice, but after playing with both versions and thinking about kit synergies as a whole, it was a relatively easy decision to keep the mechanic as is.

My intent is that it is "harder" to pull than to push. This is not because I like "useless difficulty", but rather because I had to make a choice as to which mode would more difficult. The reason I kept the ability with the targeting the way it currently is is as follows:

*In an "oh shoot" moment, you want the most intuitive outcome to be one that is less likely to result in you dying and more likely to save your life. Freaking out and pressing E should not draw the enemy in; pulling in should be the more calculated choice.

*Thresh's E combos with his Q in two ways -- you can EQ to set up a Q pull with less chance for the enemy to dodge or you can QE to extend the effect of the pull. EQ needs to be executed very quickly (button press within 0.5 seconds of the other) and Q is narrower than E. QE actually requires that you delay the execution of the E (~1.5 second delay) and the enemy's position is locked as you have them Q stunned. So these combos dictated making the QE combo the one that required the most mouse movement.

*Players tend to, rightly, think of themselves as the locus of their abilities. Having the vector -- the direction -- in which the push occurs be the direction from Thresh to his cursor felt a lot more natural, though admittedly not perfectly natural. It was very, very difficult to execute the "cast behind to knock away" version of the spell with targeting reversed.

I was going to create a thread on this very subject until I found one was already made. It's very cool that you responded and gave reasons CertainlyT, but there are somethings that dont quite jive with me.

First when you say "*In an "oh shoot" moment, you want the most intuitive outcome to be one that is less likely to result in you dying and more likely to save your life. Freaking out and pressing E should not draw the enemy in; pulling in should be the more calculated choice."
In my brief experience you create the opposite effect than what you are intending in this statement. You expect the pull to go in the same direction your q does. In an "oh shoot" moment the first thought is to use it similar to your q. Also pointing your cursor towards your enemy is generally a very offensive move, pointing it away is defensive/escape. Think of champions like nautilus and nocturne (that have abilities you point in different locations for attacking vs escape) and where they put there cursor for what effect. In an "oh shoot" moment you die again and again until you finally remember to use your e in a way opposite of your q and natural instincts. You may be used to this by now, but for people just learning the champ like myself it is a considerably frustrating roadblock.

It sounds like you've made up your mind on this already but please consider it because as a casual player I can tell you I find the controls for Thresh's E to be counter-intuitive.
You also make an argument that stringing your q and e too close together in a combo can waste the efficiency of the combo compared to if you had timed it better. While I agree this is the case I definitely DON'T agree that making you drastically switch the positioning of your cursor from pointing at your target to pointing away from your target makes it easier to time your combo. If this is the case for you I understand, but I'm telling you I can time things better when I don't need to switch the target location of my cursor. As an average player I imagine many people will feel the same way.

Just my 2 cents, it may seem trivial, but first impressions are what normal people like me use to determine whether we like the champ enough to pick it up. This could go a long way in that process.


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Vile Samael

Senior Member

01-17-2013

I have absolutely no problem working with his skill as it is now. It'd screw me up if I had to move my mouse in the opposite direction of where I want the enemy to go :/''


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Raisu

Senior Member

01-17-2013

The intent of the "oh shoot" moment is that you would use the ability to knock back your opponent prior to running away with as little thought towards the action you need to take as possible

Your interpretation appears to be if you are already running away.


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Bees

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Raisu:
The intent of the "oh shoot" moment is that you would use the ability to knock back your opponent prior to running away with as little thought towards the action you need to take as possible

Your interpretation appears to be if you are already running away.

This is Correct, my "oh shoot" reaction is to run away or go all in (this is the FIRST action taken as a reflex before my conscious mind even starts to think about using an ability), especially with a ranged character. Running away you'd prefer the area behind you to be a push, going all in you'd prefer the area in front of you to be a pull. Both are the opposite of the current ability of thresh. I'm surprised so many people seem to feel differently. I finished reading all the responses and was surprised to see how many (maybe 50%) like it the way it is.

Edit: Maybe 50% of forum users dont have a fight or flight response when they think "oh shoot?"


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wi1lywonka

Senior Member

02-12-2013

Bump for this; requesting the option to switch it.


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Yami arashi

Senior Member

02-12-2013

Just smartcast it, it solves all, if u are new to smartcast, i will just take as much 2 matches to get used XD


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ploki122

Senior Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
CertainlyT:
Facing is also problematic. If you play nidalee, you'll understand what I'm saying -- champions change facing direction in our game a lot (espeically when around minions) without the player having much sense of control over it.

Amen