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The directions of Thresh's E should be reversed

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Wuuthrad

Senior Member

01-11-2013

There really is no struggle with it. I have only played three games as Thresh and I already have the mechanic down perfectly. Anyway, as it is right now makes more sense, like others have said. I would rather have them move in the same direction your cursor is pointing. A lot better then aiming the skill behind me to move them in the OPPOSITE direction that I was initially aiming.


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Shyo

Junior Member

01-11-2013

Quote:
Aneris:
"We're making Thresh feel a little clunky, because this skill combo would be too strong otherwise."


Its not that its clunky. Its that the skill just requires more skill to use as you have to position it differently. It'll be annoying at first, but as soon as you actually start to play the champion, you learn how to master it's abilities right? I dont think its right to fix something because "It's too hard to do". I never have problems with his E.


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Alenym Lardio

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Mysnomer:
Oh thank heavens. A picture will hopefully clear up a lot of the confusion going on. While I don't know if a full vector is needed, I admit your version does the ability justice, and almost anything would be better than the way it is now.


Thanks for your feedback!

And I don't think "drawing" the full direction would be needed either because it would lower the reactivity of the skill! It was just to make it clearer ^^

Just a quick gesture toward where you wanna "throw" the champ would do the thing, I think. Maybe they could add something like... you know, on other vector skills, if you simply click quickly, it just throws it in a straight line in front of you. So it could be "click and drag if you need the precision of the knockback" and "just click to AoE interrupt".


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General Quackers

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Smartcasting really does solve everything.

With smartcasting enabled, you don't need to turn Thresh around and then use his E to pull someone in from a direct approach. You can simply walk towards them, then smart cast the ability behind Thresh and he'll turn around and pull them in one swift instant.

Not trying to be rude, but this is hardly a thread worthy issue because the game gives you an option that is beyond adequate for the problem you're experiencing.


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Alenym Lardio

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Original Duck:
You can simply walk towards them, then smart cast the ability behind Thresh and he'll turn around and pull them in one swift instant.
.


You make it sound easy, but it's actually exactly the issue we're discussing here! ^^
Casting the ability behind him is REALLY not precise, seeing how the line of effect is not reallyyyy large. Try pulling someone at max range with smartcasting... :S
Of course, you can get used to it, but even after a few games with him, I still miss it, even though it's not a skillshot designed to be hard to land... I think there are ways to make it easier to use while retaining the intuitive aspect of its use.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Alenym Lardio:
You make it sound easy, but it's actually exactly the issue we're discussing here! ^^
Casting the ability behind him is REALLY not precise, seeing how the line of effect is not reallyyyy large. Try pulling someone at max range with smartcasting... :S
Of course, you can get used to it, but even after a few games with him, I still miss it, even though it's not a skillshot designed to be hard to land... I think there are ways to make it easier to use while retaining the intuitive aspect of its use.


What do you expect of a champion who hasn't even been available for play for even a week? Should you be able to play one game with him and become an expert with his kit? This is getting ridiculous.


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Alenym Lardio

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Original Duck:
What do you expect of a champion who hasn't even been available for play for even a week? Should you be able to play one game with him and become an expert with his kit? This is getting ridiculous.


My point is that his E is not supposed to be a difficulty of his kit. It's not supposed to be way harder to pull than push with this skill. It's obviously made to be a easy-to-land skill (no cast time, short but large...)

Riot wants that the complexity of the game to be about choices, not about useless difficulty. (I'm merely quoting something a Red said a long time ago on the forums, don't remember who and what exactly, but eh, just to say I'm not inventing that out of nowhere :3)
And yeah, I think that if you HAVE to aim a skillshot elsewhere than where you want it to go, then it's useless difficulty and not complexity...


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General Quackers

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Quote:
Alenym Lardio:
My point is that his E is not supposed to be a difficulty of his kit. It's not supposed to be way harder to pull than push with this skill. It's obviously made to be a easy-to-land skill (no cast time, short but large...)

Riot wants that the complexity of the game to be about choices, not about useless difficulty. (I'm merely quoting something a Red said a long time ago on the forums, don't remember who and what exactly, but eh, just to say I'm not inventing that out of nowhere :3)
And yeah, I think that if you HAVE to aim a skillshot elsewhere than where you want it to go, then it's useless difficulty and not complexity...


You're dead wrong. By design, it's much easier to push than to pull. This fact in conjunction with the pull already present in his kit via Q demonstrates that this is overwhelmingly most likely not a an accident or an oversight.

The fact that Thresh is a support and his E works much better and more intuitively when attempting to support a teammate is overwhelmingly most likely not an accident or an oversight.

Furthermore, there is no needless difficulty to either pulling an enemy or pushing off a pursuer. Why should Thresh be able to run away from a target and push them back simultaneously when every other champion in the game who is capable to shoving an enemy must face them to do so? This isn't asking Riot to eliminate needless difficulty, this is asking Riot to implement needless faceroll.

Through all of this I cannot stress enough that simply using smartcasting eliminates all of these quality of life issues that people say are a problem.


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Alenym Lardio

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Well, my whole point was that by design, it's supposed to be equally difficult. I don't think that the presence of another pull in his kit proves anything, actually. Especially since they are both small pulls, unlike Blitz's or Naut (well, Naut's is quite short too, but it's followed by a root, which makes sense... Whereas Thresh's only follow-up to his pull would be... a push? That's what you mean? Thresh's Q+E is not worse than Blitz's Q+E, or Naut's Q+AA... Not even talking about the rest of their cc. I don't think this would "enable faceroll". You're kinda exagerrating and missing the point.

"Thresh’s E is a small directional knock that Thresh has the power to shape the movement on – he can push enemies in a line away, pull enemies in a line toward him, or anything in between."
It doesn't look like it should be more difficult to pull than to push. The way it's said seems to mean "do whatever you want with your ennemy."

And I was specifically talking about the case where you smartcast, actually. I had never thought about the issue if you don't use smartcasting.

Oh, and Thresh is already able to run away while pushing back, and it's way easier than pulling anyone you just launched yourself into with Q. Didn't get that part of your argumentation, except if you're asking to completly remove the pull element of Thresh's E? O_o

PS: Since we're now kinda discussing about CertainlyT's intentions, I think we should just stop the discussion there; our point about the E feeling clumsy has been said. :P


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DingoHedge

Senior Member

01-12-2013

Oh god that'd be really strange and counter intuitive. PLEASE don't change it.