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Thoughts on Thresh's Passive

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Drigonzex

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Lautari:
Hello, welcome to league of legends.

This is what passives do most of the time.

You don't need to buy atkspd on olaf because of his passive (u don't really need a whole lot of atk either because of his steroid) you mainly need hp.

Tons of other champs are the same way. Their passives completely remove the need to waste money on a certain stat or stats.

Like the guy said before, he wasn't unkillable, he was just tanky. There isn't anything wrong with naturally tanky champs. Mundo, Choggath, Singed, Olaf. All these guys get very tanky often times with barely any investment into defensive items.


Well with someone like olaf he gets the atk speed, only when hes low one health with Thresh it would be an all the time thing that dosent matter if he has it or not, not arguing that passives dont give free stats but we wouldn't want it to be too much free stats


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Lautari

Junior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Drigonzex:
Well with someone like olaf he gets the atk speed, only when hes low one health with Thresh it would be an all the time thing that dosent matter if he has it or not, not arguing that passives dont give free stats but we wouldn't want it to be too much free stats



Sure but i think people are blowing up the amount of armor/mr/ap you actually end up getting by the end of a game.

And when you are looking at balance you have to take an average player. Otherwise you punish skillful players.

An average player in the PBE was collecting around 50-100 souls a match.

50 souls is only around 38 ap 38 armor and 38 mr
100 souls is closer to 60 ap 60 armor and 60 mr.

The games I watched where they got 100 souls were on the pbe and no one tried to zone them off of souls. The enemy teams just let the threshes collect souls the whole match for some reason.

Its similar in a way to veigar and nassus. Both of them can get enormous dmg from their Q's but its unrealistic that they would actually get the numbers very high in skillful competitive play, because a competent enemy is going to make adjustments to stop them from boosting over time.

So i think the threat of his passive is blown way out of proportions.


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Fudge Dragon

Senior Member

01-10-2013

This is why I think a realistic option is to put MR scaling back on his passive but cut it in half.
Most Tanks have a 2:1 ratio on their Armor and MR scaling per level anyway, if Thresh is going to be a tank this is a viable option.
And I never considered the Veigar and Nasus capless damage either, but thresh can throw his W to collect souls last I checked, so he's not in as much danger.


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Basil van Yhun

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Lautari:
Sure but i think people are blowing up the amount of armor/mr/ap you actually end up getting by the end of a game.

And when you are looking at balance you have to take an average player. Otherwise you punish skillful players.

An average player in the PBE was collecting around 50-100 souls a match.

50 souls is only around 38 ap 38 armor and 38 mr
100 souls is closer to 60 ap 60 armor and 60 mr.

The games I watched where they got 100 souls were on the pbe and no one tried to zone them off of souls. The enemy teams just let the threshes collect souls the whole match for some reason.

Its similar in a way to veigar and nassus. Both of them can get enormous dmg from their Q's but its unrealistic that they would actually get the numbers very high in skillful competitive play, because a competent enemy is going to make adjustments to stop them from boosting over time.

So i think the threat of his passive is blown way out of proportions.


Pretty much this.
Yes, in customgames I got to 255 souls and was very tanky from that but how many 50 minute games have you played so far where the enemy let you freefarm and casually kill them.


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Drigonzex

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Lautari:
Sure but i think people are blowing up the amount of armor/mr/ap you actually end up getting by the end of a game.

And when you are looking at balance you have to take an average player. Otherwise you punish skillful players.

An average player in the PBE was collecting around 50-100 souls a match.

50 souls is only around 38 ap 38 armor and 38 mr
100 souls is closer to 60 ap 60 armor and 60 mr.

The games I watched where they got 100 souls were on the pbe and no one tried to zone them off of souls. The enemy teams just let the threshes collect souls the whole match for some reason.

Its similar in a way to veigar and nassus. Both of them can get enormous dmg from their Q's but its unrealistic that they would actually get the numbers very high in skillful competitive play, because a competent enemy is going to make adjustments to stop them from boosting over time.

So i think the threat of his passive is blown way out of proportions.

Well they dont want to make a pub stomping champ like xin again that really good in low play but bad in skillful play, he can also grab souls by throwing his lantern. Im not saying it may not neeed to be changed but we should wait and see how it goes once hes playable again to see how strong/weak it is and if they change anything else for him.

And as people learn to play him as well there going to learn the best ways to make sure they get the max amount of souls they can, so it goes both ways


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Drigonzex

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Basil van Yhun:
Pretty much this.
Yes, in customgames I got to 255 souls and was very tanky from that but how many 50 minute games have you played so far where the enemy let you freefarm and casually kill them.

Well you dont have to free farm you just have to be near anyone whos farming, so if your doing a team push your going to get them, or just pushing with another teammate, and your getting one every time someone around you get a champ kill. And itll be even easier if your losing an get inhibs out because now there a big minion every wave instead of every three


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

01-10-2013

I think I'd agree with the consensus that he should have at least some MR scaling on the souls.

However, if they decide they don't want him to be so tanky I'd suggest allowing The Box to be placed at range rather than it being dropped around his person. If he's made more squishy then you should allow him to play more like a ranged champ all round. If you insist on forcing him into melee range then I feel he needs some innate MR.


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Basil van Yhun

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Drigonzex:
Well you dont have to free farm you just have to be near anyone whos farming, so if your doing a team push your going to get them, or just pushing with another teammate, and your getting one every time someone around you get a champ kill. And itll be even easier if your losing an get inhibs out because now there a big minion every wave instead of every three


You have to be able to move freely to reach a high count of souls and this is generally not happening even in mid-level play.

Edit: In the client Tresh is tagged as a tank. A tank without any mr scaling or steroid is definetely not a tank.


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Fudge Dragon

Senior Member

01-10-2013

If Riot wants Thresh to be a tank they need to give him properties that all tanks have otherwise he is going to fall off in comparison to other tanks.
As a support Thresh is terrifying, but if he has an armor steroid and he is designed to jump into a fight and use his ult, I think he needs his MR scaling back.
Like Basil said, he's a tank, without some sort of scaling for both Armor and MR he's not a tank.


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Lautari:
Hello, welcome to league of legends.

This is what passives do most of the time.

You don't need to buy atkspd on olaf because of his passive (u don't really need a whole lot of atk either because of his steroid) you mainly need hp.

Tons of other champs are the same way. Their passives completely remove the need to waste money on a certain stat or stats.

Like the guy said before, he wasn't unkillable, he was just tanky. There isn't anything wrong with naturally tanky champs. Mundo, Choggath, Singed, Olaf. All these guys get very tanky often times with barely any investment into defensive items.

Olaf: "Hai. I only has high AS when I'm low on health"
Mundo, Singed: "Hai. I'm tanky if I invest into at least two strong tanky items, especially of the health variety. Our free tank stats are also on our ult and our passives require initial gold investment"
Cho'gath: "Hai. My free stats are on my ult and get removed if I die"

Thresh a few days ago: "Hai. I get free, permanent, unconditional MR/Armor and all I have to do is collect souls that my AD carry hand feeds me. I even have a ranged ability that allows me to pick up the souls from a distance"


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