@Riot We need to get our priorities straight here

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PsychicD3m0n

Junior Member

01-08-2013

(this is here because i'm mainly talking about Singed)

So I understand that no one wants to play a game and not be that killing machine that absolutely murders everything. But when you have a team game like LoL that is focused on teamwork and strategic use of champions and their strengths you have to sometimes take that another role whether it be a support, tank, or off-tank. These are the roles that define the team game genre that are not the mage or straight attack types.

Now then the main reason that I am currently writing this. Is the fact that these other roles should consist of champions that are designed for said roles. So far they are filled relatively well, you have great support champs like janna, soraka, and sona. Fantastic tanks like Naut, and Leona. and good off-tanks with Warwick, and Jax. However the problem arises when you have champs that can fill these roles with no consequence to other aspects.

Tanks should not be able to duel a carry and win while having the same farm. However this is becoming the case as of recently. Recently In my last few games I have watched as a pure tanky Sejuani fight and dominate against an ADC that had more farm then her.

Singed is the biggest problem in this case. He has fun mechanics of course with his poison and fling and that makes him interesting to play. However the nature of his ult and passive along with his scaling stats mark him as being a tank. Looking at two champs side by side for comparison with this. A Singed (tank) and an Annie (AP Carry). Giving them both a fully stacked ROA at lvl 12 and lets see how their health, mana, and damage off of their maxed Q's stack up.

Singed Annie
HP: 2297 HP: 1870
Mana: 1360 Mana: 1450
Q damage (1 tick): 94 Q damage: 301
Q damage (2 ticks): 188 CD 1 second: 301
Q damage (full duration) : 282 CD 2 second: 301
Q damage (4 ticks): 376 CD 3 second: 301
Q damage (5 ticks): 470 CD 4 second :301
Q damage (6 ticks): 564 Q damage (second) : 602

Looking at this it clearly shows that if the only damage being done is their q's over time that singed would end with more damage, While it is true that Annie has more damage moves its also easier to escape from an Annie then it is a Singed, Now if we assume both enter into a fight with another champ and that champ attempts to flee from the fight. It instantly becomes Singed's territory as he can use his ultimate increasing speed and Ability Power and chase down the champion with ease along with slowing them down and flinging them into his poison field. Annie on the other hand must first get within range to cast, stay within range to trigger her passive stun and land her ultimate in the right place to achieve her burst. Assuming fair reaction time by the enemy champion in this case we can assume that annie was not able to complete her combo thereby letting the enemy champ escape with minor amounts of damage.

Further additions to each champions build will increase their effectiveness in this strategy. Annie will build more Ability power and do more damage in a successful burst but will remain relatively squishy. Singed however can build straight tank from this point and continue to unleash massive amounts of damage with his poison to multiple champions on the enemy team along with minions while Annie is forced into mostly Single target damage.

In conclusion I am stating that to achieve a necessary equilibrium in the champs role and keeping him fun that his poison damage should be reduced to 22/28/34/42/48 (40% AP) per second. This lets singed still have early game presence along with late game damage, but not enough to be able to massively damage an entire enemy team will staying unkillable. This forces Singed's to build more ability power if they want to do large amounts of damage but if they want to be that unstoppable force they have to let up on the damage. This also allows Singed's to build utility to help control the enemy force thus letting him fully serve the role of tank


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Dragoon14th

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Senior Member

01-09-2013

ok go play singed comeback with that smurk he can be kitted
he has no gap a slow will defeat him without the FON hes no longer the carry tank shure he can do damg while tanking but really you can just focus fire him and hes dead LET me get this straight HE was the god of tank carry. With teh removal of Force of nature and the hp nerf of warmonger and cost of TM went up hes effective less then he was. THe force of nature hurts tanks that needed it to be mobile and tanking. as of right now Singed morde rammus and allistar is currently unplayable because of the FON nerf. I dont see ad getting their item nerfed. Hell atm this season is all about who got the most adc in their team cuz last i check AD item just gotten buff while ap and tank got nerfed even the liament torment is weak just cuz of 5% current hp need to be change to 5% max hp.

Again just slow him there no reason you cant they got the new item to let u slow on auto hit for 3 sec tehy have slow staff get what im saying and they both have slow on them. actully SLOW is pretty much over rated now done with rant lol


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Jamaree

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Senior Member

01-09-2013

...Stupid bad **** comparison is stupid?


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

01-09-2013

AP Carries and AD carries are functionally different.

Also Vayne would probably destroy Singed in ways that are both depressing and arousing.


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Spearis

Junior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea De Penserhir View Post
AP Carries and AD carries are functionally different.

Also Vayne would probably destroy Singed in ways that are both depressing and arousing.
lol Ya Vayne destroys a lot. Also 0.0. Someone's is lucky/unlucky...not really sure wich that would be considered.


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Shumatsu

Member

01-17-2013

Honestly, a little tired of the "you are support, you are pathetic without a teammate! You are tank, somehow i should have SO much damage that i can kill all of your tankiness, but you can't hurt my fragile self, ect."
Not to say the adc should do less damage, but that is should even out to skill. Not, "I'm an adc, so i win if you are alone as a tank." Everyone should have a chance, we don't need people like you turning certain champs into gods.
At least that is just me, everything should be *able* to handle itself, if played right.


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Xian217

Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shumatsu View Post
Honestly, a little tired of the "you are support, you are pathetic without a teammate! You are tank, somehow i should have SO much damage that i can kill all of your tankiness, but you can't hurt my fragile self, ect."
Not to say the adc should do less damage, but that is should even out to skill. Not, "I'm an adc, so i win if you are alone as a tank." Everyone should have a chance, we don't need people like you turning certain champs into gods.
At least that is just me, everything should be *able* to handle itself, if played right.
Supports are picked as supports because they are very useful when teamed up with an ally. This is most commonly done because they have a huge amount of CC. CC tends not to scale in the duration too heavily, making them versatile early game, but they also stagnate and not get much benefit from items. It is through this combination that they can take on the utility function of speed buffs, slows, stuns, etc, while an ally takes on the damage dealing function. You don't -have- to, but it tends to be better for the team if large scale team fights break out.

Tanks are made to be hard to kill, but also a target to be attacked. With a few exceptions, Shen, Rammus and Teemo, you are not forced to attack a champion. A tank champion can thus be a high priority champion to be attacked anyways through a variety of methods. Including being a pest, getting in the way intentionally of their attacks, or being very scary when mixed with teammates and your latent CC.

This is why you will often hear that a support is pathetic without a teammate, because most supports really are less powerful without a teammate. For instance, Leona's passive can't be activated without a teammate. As for the tank? In a 1v1 the tank should lose to the ADC. It should take the tank a lot longer to die than a squishy though, and that's actually balanced. Remember, ADC's ted not to have much CC. Tanks tend to have a lot. CC is strong with allies. Not the strongest when alone.


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Pyroken II

Junior Member

01-20-2013

Lol Singed is not even OP... play him for a week them comeback and voice your opinion on him before taking not of your previous game where you failed mid with Annie and the Singed on the other team wrecked your cause you wanted to spawn your teddy bear on him.(chased him around)


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EnderDDT

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Senior Member

01-25-2013

So many things wrong with the original post.

First of all there is no reason why a tank who uses damage as his type of threat pull would need to loose to a single ADC in a one-on-one fight. The ADC will wreck in mere seconds but the tank is threatening because he will wreck if left alone over enough time.

Second, burst is a LOT more important and powerful than damage over time. Constant low damage over time, no matter how high it adds up to be, will still result in your opponent walking away. Burst will give you a kill bounty.

Third, you aren't going to see those two characters matched up with just that one item. And even if you do see that for a brief moment of the game their buildpath will very quickly change with singed being forced to go more tanky to survive and Annie getting more AP to kill more quickly.

Annie's burst is one of the most reliable in the game as her stun holds the opponent in place long enough for her to get the rest of her combo off and start to walk away. This is even true with merc treads and other CC reductions. And then tibbers follows you...

Comparing one spell for one spell, just because they are attached to the same button, makes no sense whatsoever. You could just as easily say that, because singed's puddle deals no damage that his DPS is lacking.

"Don't chase" is the motto for fighting singed. The reason it is this is that singed relies heavily on the opponent to do something they shouldn't in order for him to have relevant DPS. If you want to avoid his damage than stay away or stun him if he tries to come near. If you are wanting to avoid Annie's damage as singed, and actually be anywhere near the battle, you are pretty much SoL.

Remove Singed's damage and you remove any reason to target him, especially after he has finished using his fling (his puddle has enough range that focusing him will not stop it from landing in/near your group). This is /the/ reason he can be an effective tank at all. Because if opponents have no reason to target you than they simply will walk past you to attack your carries. Walk, not flash/jump/ghost/etc.

And that is just what I saw without even looking at the numbers or going into much detail of what was said.


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pengwndude

Senior Member

01-26-2013

I main singed

biggest weakness? early game. starve him farm and he can't buy anything
because he can't buy things, he'll be weak and killable. when that happens, it's VERY hard to come back around and he won't be able to tank. so either he'll die in teamfights or he'll have to lane much longer than intended.


His strength lies in late game. His weakness lies in early game. Seriously, his early game is pitiful.
To fight singed late game? hard cc works well. also, singed only has 1 real spell for fighting, that being fling of course. if you stay out of poison, you'll do fine probably.


but like I said, a singed that loses early game has much much harder time coming back. his best friend is time, both in terms of fighting and viability in a match.