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BFT needs limitations on how effective it is with different types of damaging spells

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KaaaBLAMO

Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Phourc:
What're the new stats? ****-ton of AP?


10 more AP, 10 more CDR, 10 MP5. 1000 gold added to the total cost, now requires a Fiendish Codex in addition to the Lucky Pick and Guise.


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Ahlen

Senior Member

01-08-2013

I just want to see it changed to 1% damage over 2s, and a .1 AP ratio. So at 250 AP it'd return to 3.5% over 2s.

Something to make it so that it scales.

It's too strong as is as a general purpose damage item on anyone that does magic damage.


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Phourc

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
KaaaBLAMO:
10 more AP, 10 more CDR, 10 MP5. 1000 gold added to the total cost, now requires a Fiendish Codex in addition to the Lucky Pick and Guise.


So I'd say not really worth the extra gold except maybe the CDR... yay a nerf!


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

01-08-2013

If people didn't buy BFT for the passive, why aren't they rushing Guise + Sweeper instead?

Guise + Sweeper
5 AP
250 health
10% move speed
Sweeper active

vs

BFT
1 item slot
455 gold
BFT passive


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Lessis

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Original Duck:
5% max health as magic damage at all times regardless of the spell is crazy. Single target spells and skill shots should apply the full damage. However, having AoE spells and toggle spells apply the full 5% magic damage is insane damage. Amumu, Singed, and Anivia are examples of champs who take the BFT passive to extreme levels of damage.

AoE spells in general should not apply the full 5% to all targets hit, that's crazy amounts of power and incredibly easy to abuse. I also think that toggle AoE toggle spells need to be looked at specially because the synergy there with BFT easily becomes overwhelming. Amumu is a great example of a champion who completely upsets the balance of power once he finishes a BFT, in a group fight, he easily ends up pumping out the more damage than the AP carry by virtue of an AoE kit + damage aura toggle + BFT.

I understand that the charge system is in place to limit how long an AoE ability can keep the BFT passive rolling, but I'm telling you that even in a 5v5 fight, the battle is decided before all 18 charges get eaten away.

are you going to do this every day??? IT IS GETTING NERFED


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

01-09-2013

Quote:
Cauldrath:
If people didn't buy BFT for the passive, why aren't they rushing Guise + Sweeper instead?

Because sweeper+guise consumes 2 slots, is about 500 gold more expensive, and the bonus efficiency comes in MS and health, neither of which directly contribute to offensive power. The passive is fine on most champions, BUT put it in one of the best cost ranges, give the item its on the best stat combos for all mages, and give it a smooth build up (5 expenditures in the 3-600 gold range and then 700 for combine) and you have a broken item. And then add the fact that the passive itself is broken on a few niche champions.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

01-09-2013

Quote:
RCIX:
Because sweeper+guise consumes 2 slots, is about 500 gold more expensive, and the bonus efficiency comes in MS and health, neither of which directly contribute to offensive power.


Excluding the BFT passive, though, Sweeper + Guise has slightly more offensive power (+5 AP). The amount of utility you get from the MS and active (completely ignoring the large chunk of health) seems like it should tilt the balance into making it a good choice over BFT on a sizable chunk of champs if, indeed, the passive isn't as important as the stats.

Quote:
The passive is fine on most champions, BUT put it in one of the best cost ranges, give the item its on the best stat combos for all mages, and give it a smooth build up (5 expenditures in the 3-600 gold range and then 700 for combine) and you have a broken item.


All this is true for Sweeper + Guise, except that the build up is even smoother, because you don't get any CDR until you complete BFT and the largest individual cost is the 575 combine cost on the Haunting Guise. Plus, it's more flexible because you can decide if you want to get Guise first or Kindlegem first. You aren't going to grab Kage's first in any case, and Kage's doesn't really help you anyway. It's more like it's a Guise upgrade with an upgrade cost of 1465. Just to be fair, Sweeper is like a Kindlegem upgrade with an upgrade cost of 1070, but it still isn't as bad.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

01-09-2013

Quote:
Lessis:
are you going to do this every day??? IT IS GETTING NERFED


It's being buffed.

Quote:
Infirc:
it's 5% of Max health over 3 seconds, it's not at any time, it's 1.75% of Max health per Second.

Nice try man but not factual enough, try again and good luck!


It was changed to 3.5% over 2secs so there was less tick overlap when applied frequently. The end result is still 1.75% max health per sec. I'm not sure how what you said differs from what I said in my OP. 1.75% max health per sec is an incredible amount of passive damage.


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Ikruti

Senior Member

01-09-2013

I'm not sure I'd say it's being buffed. Look at it this way, yes, while it is getting more stats, it's getting a third component. This means that rushing it will take longer and that it will cost more gold.

The third component is interesting in that it makes completing it late game extremely difficult as having 3 slots open to fill with early to mid game items will be very unlikely. The end result being that except in extreme cases it will most likely end up being a semi-rush item or not at all.

What I mean by semi-rush is that you'll probably see people either rush all three components and then the combine, or rush two of the three, get another item or even two, then try to finish it off.

Either way it delays at what point in the game they'll have it, hopefully to a point where the opponents will be much prepared to face it. And the cost / slots needed to build piecemeal will probably make it highly unlikely to be built at the end (sort of like how it's almost impossible to build an IE late game).

So in that regards, I'm not sure that's a buff.


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