Pick Order>Calls prove it to me

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MrSimplyDiva

Member

01-10-2013

I doubt that would happen really. There are 5 people in every match. Obviously you will not all be the same elo.


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Gray the Grayte

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Yes because clearly the way roles should be decided is by which person can type the fastest in chat log.
</sarcasm>

Pick order > call order for the simple reason that they pick first.

Calling roles is merely a request which a reasonable team will consider but at the end of the day if two specialise in a particular position someone is going to lose out and doing based on whichever has the ability to type the fastest in chat log is not the way to do it.

The viable long term solution is to have lane position queuing in the match maker itself (see suggestion 7 in this thread) but Riot does not seem to be interested in doing that.


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JanosWuryon

Senior Member

01-10-2013

3 points.

1. I know the first line of my post, the comment was sarcastic in nature as I know its not in the code.

2. Skill order? If the system could take into account, games played, recent elo movement up/down and then place matches you could say this but reality is if you are an 0-5 troll on the way down you could still have a better elo then me, currently (last 76 games) 12 games over .500 ,+200 elo on the way up. Which is how we get the 0-17 first pick darius leading the game by banning temmo, Master Yi and Tryndamere cause they are so OP..

3. I think the idea system is to copy WoW and allow players to create their own banned lists. preventing the Que from ever matching them with those players. believe me Trolls get reported enough that eventually they would have to wait hours to find teams and that would drive their number way down. And conversely if you are a report spammer eventually you would ostrasize your self by having too many bans to find teammates. Thus balancing the system.

In lieu of this having some ability to avoid the pregame trolls is needed badly. I think we coudl all agree that having my que take 5 minutes even is better then wasting 20 minutes, minimum in an Elo sapping loss due to a troll you knew was there?


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Shardbearer

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Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSimplyDiva View Post
LOL Skill order? Don't even get me started! Often when I solo I get stuck with a 1st pick mid or a 1st pick top that totally gets destroyed since he didn't want to swap champions with someone else and because he just totaly just flat out fails. It's so frustrating! You tell them in champion select that you will most likely get countered as first pick and all they say is " I don't care, pick order "

If relying on this unwritten rule makes you have to carry a 0-17 darius most of your games why doesn't anyone change it?

To add on to other people's posts, I do not think you can abuse the kicking system seeing as you are placed with 4 other random people. Therefore, 4 other opinions. If the guy isn't trolling, people won't kick him. It's rather obvious when someone wants to troll and ruin the game for the other 4 random players placed together that have hope to get decent teammates to have a nice time and play to win.

This happened in my last ranked game. Oo
I 2nd picked sona, below me picked talon. Enemy picked elise, and he went 0-9. We still won the game, but at least we all got the enjoyment of getting to report someone for feed. I tried to tell him in champion select he was going to have trouble with his pick. >.>


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Orion69

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Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSimplyDiva View Post
LOL Skill order? Don't even get me started! Often when I solo I get stuck with a 1st pick mid or a 1st pick top that totally gets destroyed since he didn't want to swap champions with someone else and because he just totaly just flat out fails. It's so frustrating! You tell them in champion select that you will most likely get countered as first pick and all they say is " I don't care, pick order "

If relying on this unwritten rule makes you have to carry a 0-17 darius most of your games why doesn't anyone change it?

To add on to other people's posts, I do not think you can abuse the kicking system seeing as you are placed with 4 other random people. Therefore, 4 other opinions. If the guy isn't trolling, people won't kick him. It's rather obvious when someone wants to troll and ruin the game for the other 4 random players placed together that have hope to get decent teammates to have a nice time and play to win.
The problem with lane swapping in solo queue, is that a lot of people don't have the champs you want/need. But I guess a better indicator of skill is who can type "top" fastest. And you can most definitely abuse the kicking system.


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JanosWuryon

Senior Member

01-11-2013

There is no way to accuratly quantify skill with the current que system. I play a pretty mean Kayle and Xin, am decent with caitlyn but for some reason lose every game Ive played with Diana and Vayne. I lost a game once with Xin jungle where I finished 26/12/18 and won games with Katarina where I went 2/8/8. So what there shows by skill level cause the only thing that matters is the end result raising or lowering my ELO.

The calls are a good indicator of where you want to play and logically ( barring total intentional Trolls) you want to play where you think you are good. Ive seen plenty of people call roles and then follow up with "Im terribad at adc so I can't do that". We have no problem letting people tell us where they suck and not forcing them into it ( except support ) but its an issue letting them play where they feel good?

How could a boot system be abusive. If 4 people don't want to deal with me I get requed elsewhere. They get someone, eventually they can deal with and there all happy and I find a team I can deal with so eventually Im happy. The rub here is the delay in matches starting but again wasting elo and 20 minutes, or getting 30+ minutes of naughty time for dodging way worse than waiting 5 minutes to get a team Im happy to be on.

As far as the"dream Team" concept someone claimed would drive players to constantly boot remember that only 2 of the people in a game are together (duo) and 2 randoms. the odds with x number of thousands of people solo queing of getting 3 people who know each other is slim and getting 4 is astronomical. So is most cases the 3 random people + 1 duo partner agreeing and being willing to boot and wait multiple times is pretty small too. In fairness to the other team they should get the option , after a second boot by opponents to get matched against a new 5's team. difficult to sort out but not impossible. to do.


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Sylvendian

Junior Member

01-24-2013

Shesocold posted:
"Lets look at it this way. You are 1900 elo and are matched with 1990 players one of them is going to lolking everyone. He says wow (so and so) is only 1900 elo let's kick him! At that higher level elo people can easily just lolking you and if you have a loss streak or lower elo a higher elo player will happily kick you to better their chances of improving their elo."

Im gonna have to agree with Shesocold on this one, I've seen this happen in WoW back in Wrath of the Lich King. People would create groups for Heroic dungeon runs or Raids, but they would check people's gear score first (it was an aggregate of how highly rated your current gear set was) before accepting ceratin players into the run/raid. If you didnt meet some arbitrary level of gear score, you where S.O.L. Keep in mind this had nothing to do with the players actual skill level. The same thing could happen with a boot vote system whereby the other players would start checking ELO scores on LoLKing and start making assumptions about those players.


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TheFakeSit

Member

01-24-2013

No, you're not entitled to a roll because you type faster or because your computer happens to load into the lobby faster. The first reply already shows you where in the summoners code it says pick order > call order explicitly. Usually i let people have the role they call, but if i pick before them, i can take the role if i please. If you don't like that, simply don't come to draft/ranked until you can play at least 1 or 2 champs decently in every role. Not trying to be mean, just saying.


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m0dified

Member

01-24-2013

quiet frankly, unless i am 4th or 5th pick i don't fill, if I'm high in the pick order (and I don't mean just my name, as in I pick, the enemy picks and then you pick) I'll more or less tell them what I am taking and take it.

I tried the whole get in with your lane call first thing but honestly I'm playing from australia so my ping is generally anywhere between 170-250ms and probably 7/10 games in the time I've loaded into champ select from home screen, everyone has screamed out a role they want to play and about 90% of the time it's never support.

And I'm literally at the point where if I get anymore ADC's starting with dorans I'm going to neck myself :P


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LeeDark

Senior Member

01-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanosWuryon View Post
3 points.

1. I know the first line of my post, the comment was sarcastic in nature as I know its not in the code.
No, the first line of the FIRST RESPONSE TO YOU. From the Summoner's Code, Section 1 ("Support Your Team"), Paragraph 2: "Being a good team player begins at champion select. Be open minded when considering the needs of your team. If you’re the last one to pick, try to fill a niche in your team that hasn’t already been filled. If everyone’s picked and something stands out as a deficiency in your team composition, try asking for another player to fill the gap, or change roles to embrace that responsibility yourself." This quite clearly puts the responsibility, in ranked play, on the last pick to fill the team's needs, regardless of how fast they were able to type the moment they entered Champion Select. If higher picks CHOOSE to recognize your call as an indication of that is what you are best at, they are being magnanimous. If they choose not to honor your call, you have to simply accept that.


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