Tribunal is flawed and here are some examples

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ILoseByWinning

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Case 1: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../6115299/#nogo

TL;DR: The "reported" player carries in both games to a win for the team. The player was not really offensive or verbally abused any teammate that did not deserve it.

I pardoned, tribunal punished.

Case 2: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../6115250/#nogo

TL;DR: Game 1: Nothing much happened.
Game 2: Fed all game. Giving team attitude about how they aren't even ranked,
Game 3: Intentionally feeding all game. 4-18 seriously? The only way to get that
many deaths is to feed intentionally. Again with the attitude about elo
and being ranked.

I punished, tribunal pardoned.


There goes my 90%+ accuracy in Justice Review. Q.Q


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Hellioning

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Case 1: There are far better ways to say "may I please have blue?" and "please put a ward down if you're going to do that." Deserved.

Case 2: True enough, I would have punished too; he was a jerk in games 2 and 3.

In short: Yes, it's flawed, but it's good enough.


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Zaresin

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Senior Member

01-08-2013

This should give you some closure hopefully. Sorry about your lost accuracy. They do stick fake cases in to see if you are just auto punishing cases.
Don't know if this is what happened to you but is a possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
3) This player should have been banned, but he was pardoned. The Tribunal is broken!
a) The Tribunal was inspired by 'crowdsourcing' research. When I was still a student, I worked with labs that developed games such as "Foldit" that took advantage of crowdsourcing to find solutions to extremely tricky tasks--when you read this research you truly appreciate how accurate crowdsourcing systems can be. In fact, the Tribunal is far more accurate than traditional Player Support.

However, the Tribunal isn't perfect. The design is based on statistical probability and random sampling and every system like this has outliers. This means that sometimes, a player has an egregious Tribunal case but is still pardoned because he happened to get a lenient set of voters; however, if the player is truly toxic, he actually is re-sent back to the Tribunal in a handful of games and is usually accurately punished in his second visit to the Tribunal.

Because the Tribunal is designed to identify frequency and consistency of toxic behavior, this is why it doesn't take into account the severity of the offense. If a player is extremely toxic he will quickly get banned multiple times by the Tribunal until he is permabanned; in fact, extremely toxic players end up permabanned significantly faster than players who are 'less severe.' In the future, we may want to brainstorm ways to improve on the Tribunal so that it does take into account severity and adjusts punishments accordingly... but we're not there yet.


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TheBestAshe

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Case 1
Lux [00:32:04] leesin
Lux [00:32:06] are you dumb
Lux [00:34:39] get a ward down
Lux [00:34:40] ****
Lux [00:35:00] dyumbasss
Lux [00:35:04] get a ****ing ward
Lux [00:37:03] are you that dumb
Lux [00:37:51] b(i)tch plz
Lux [00:41:15] why is lee sin running like a *****
Lux [00:05:43] lee just stfu do your job
Lux [00:08:30] this ***** is too mad
Lux [All] [00:15:07] so fun to play with noobs..
Lux [All] [00:17:31] you suck too lol
Lux [All] [00:20:12] lee sin.. sigh.. you are not good at all.. sigh..
Lux [All] [00:38:44] *****es you aint ****
Lux [All] [00:41:21] ***** lee had to take mine

Definitely not a pardon.
Case 2

Couldn't find a single instance of him being negative or toxic. You claim he was intientionally feeding in the third game yet you have nothing to base this on. His farm was by far the highest on the team and his build isn't a troll build either; there's absolutely nothing for you to make this claim on aside from that he had a bad score which is not something you should use to base your decision on.

From these two cases, it seems that you are extremely biased towards the players scores when making your decisions. Case 1 was clearly a ban, I don't understand how anyone could pardon that. Please stop using the Tribunal if you're going to judge based on score.


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Jimsvaliant

Senior Member

01-08-2013

These threads are getting kind of annoying. When Riot posts the tribunal statistics they have the largest sample size to work with and they can analyze the results. They have made the claim that while there are flaws, the overall trend is that the benefits of having the tribunal vastly outweigh the shortcomings. I would agree with them.

Posting two cases and pointing out what everyone else, including Riot, has acknowledged as some shortcomings is just plain ignorant. I'm sorry for using that word, but it is. Yes, some people slip through the cracks and some are misjudged BUT!!! And this is an important BUT!!! The overall trend has shown that the tribunal has had a positive impact on the community.


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ILoseByWinning

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBestAshe View Post
Case 1
Lux [00:32:04] leesin
Lux [00:32:06] are you dumb
Lux [00:34:39] get a ward down
Lux [00:34:40] ****
Lux [00:35:00] dyumbasss
Lux [00:35:04] get a ****ing ward
Lux [00:37:03] are you that dumb
Lux [00:37:51] b(i)tch plz
Lux [00:41:15] why is lee sin running like a *****
Lux [00:05:43] lee just stfu do your job
Lux [00:08:30] this ***** is too mad
Lux [All] [00:15:07] so fun to play with noobs..
Lux [All] [00:17:31] you suck too lol
Lux [All] [00:20:12] lee sin.. sigh.. you are not good at all.. sigh..
Lux [All] [00:38:44] *****es you aint ****
Lux [All] [00:41:21] ***** lee had to take mine

Definitely not a pardon. Please stop using the Tribunal, you're terrible at judging.
That just goes to show that you only read what's in purple. Try reading the green text too next time.

Leesin doesn't ward. Dives into a outnumbered fight and dies. Yea, he really doesn't deserve to be reprimanded for that dumb move. Yep.

Lux's team was trolling and insulting her the entire game as well.

Terrible at judging? Come at me bro. Pic related.


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0ur0boros

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Case 1: There are far better ways to say "may I please have blue?" and "please put a ward down if you're going to do that." Deserved.
Are you being seriously? like for seriouslyness? I bet you punish for people saying "noob" too.


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Gofduh

Senior Member

01-08-2013

my biggest issue is when people report for an inappropriate name...that i cant see


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Zaresin

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Senior Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoseByWinning View Post
That just goes to show that you only read what's in purple. Try reading the green text too next time.

His team was trolling and insulting him the entire game as well.

Terrible at judging? Come at me bro. Pic related.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post

1) What's the point of having a language filter if I can get banned for 'adult' language?
a) We aren't out to punish players who use adult language; in fact, very few players are ever banned for saying stuff like "f***, I missed that skill shot" or "damn, f***ing close game!" However, the language filter is not an excuse to verbally abuse someone in the game. When you verbally abuse or harass someone by calling them "f***ing ******" or "n*gger noob", that's when you've crossed the line and will be punished by the Tribunal. I've said this before and I'll say it again, we aren't trying to clean online games of adult language; we're trying to reform or get rid of jerks who like to verbally abuse and harass other players.

4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned???
a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.
Please refer to Lytes quote for any other questions you may have regarding "who started it" and verbal abuse also if you may have questions about the chat filter in general.


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Zaresin

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Senior Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofduh View Post
my biggest issue is when people report for an inappropriate name...that i cant see
That was a bug that should be fixed by now. Send in a support ticket with a screen shot of the window as they need to be made aware of it. PS will contact you further for info regarding your system.