FoN and Integrity in Item design

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Tyr Ahn Nee

Senior Member

01-01-2013

I mean, if we take the game of Chess as an analogy, its like studying a series of Opening Moves for months and months on end, learning their strengths and weaknesses, sharpening your skills with them, and then suddenly, some spoiled brat(RIOT) comes along and says: "Its my chessboard so you have to play by my rules!" Then suddenly, you can't move d2, e2 or your knights as an opening move! If effect, you are
forced to play the weakest opening moves imaginable.

This analogy perfectly fits Riot's <"We want damage to mean something">, their ever increasing attacks on the ability to mitigate damage, or regenerate health.

Mitigating damage is what tanks do! Tanks are the ones who trade away the ability to do damage, for the ability to mitigate damage. Calling "Tanking" an unfair advantage is absurd.

I notice, that Riot did not have a corresponding increase in the damage output potential of those characters classed as Tanks. No. They are simply taking away their ability to mitigate damage, without compensating them with an increase in damage output, thereby making them sitting ducks.

With reference to my above analogy, How does/would Riot respond to the fact, that by Micro-Managing Builds they are destroying any integrity this 'E-sport' may have had? Certainly, items like <"Runaan's Hurricane (Ranged Only)"> and <"Ravenous Hydra (Melee Only)"> are fairly obvious evidence that Riot isn't even pretending to be "impartial" or "disinterested", and is blatantly arranging and designing items so that certain characters perform well, while certain other characters (tanks) perform poorly.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

01-01-2013

Previously: Aegis+FoN
Now: Bulwark+(Insert MR item here)

Total MR change negligible. If you're looking for HP/5 Warmog's is still here.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyr Ahn Nee View Post
I mean, if we take the game of Chess as an analogy, its like studying a series of Opening Moves for months and months on end, learning their strengths and weaknesses, sharpening your skills with them, and then suddenly, some spoiled brat(RIOT) comes along and says: "Its my chessboard so you have to play by my rules!" Then suddenly, you can't move d2, e2 or your knights as an opening move! If effect, you are
forced to play the weakest opening moves imaginable.

This analogy perfectly fits Riot's <"We want damage to mean something">, their ever increasing attacks on the ability to mitigate damage, or regenerate health.

Mitigating damage is what tanks do! Tanks are the ones who trade away the ability to do damage, for the ability to mitigate damage. Calling "Tanking" an unfair advantage is absurd.

I notice, that Riot did not have a corresponding increase in the damage output potential of those characters classed as Tanks. No. They are simply taking away their ability to mitigate damage, without compensating them with an increase in damage output, thereby making them sitting ducks.

With reference to my above analogy, How does/would Riot respond to the fact, that by Micro-Managing Builds they are destroying any integrity this 'E-sport' may have had? Certainly, items like <"Runaan's Hurricane (Ranged Only)"> and <"Ravenous Hydra (Melee Only)"> are fairly obvious evidence that Riot isn't even pretending to be "impartial" or "disinterested", and is blatantly arranging and designing items so that certain characters perform well, while certain other characters (tanks) perform poorly.
I actually start Doran's Shield on (lane) Amumu now.
My next few items are entirely defensive in nature.


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Akira Kid41

Senior Member

01-02-2013

I think Riot wants to see the role of tanking used more assertively. Lets not forget what else tanks offer such as crowd control. Tanks should have to plan and be wary of where and how they place their C.C.. Tanks were too much of a presence in season 2 being that they were able to withstand entire teams while setting up and placing their abilities.
Riot wants to do away with careless play styles.
Look at Leona. She is constantly being reported as having too little dps on the forums. Yet she can still build into damage while having that window that eclipse grants to tank out damage, while dealing up to 1k burst damage.


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Tyr Ahn Nee

Senior Member

01-04-2013

The issues are "Integrity" and "Micro-Managing Builds."

With the introduction of suffix' like "Melee Only" and "Ranged Only" Riot is now blatantly Micro-managing builds. This means less freedom.
Less freedom is always bad. We've all seen an AD Sona, or a AS Zilean, because players had the freedom and ability to build such characters. The addition of an item which adds AD but is restricted to "Melee Only" or an item which add AS but is restricted to "Ranged Only" gives Riot the ability to control how champions are built, and therefore the ability to control how champions perform. And this is clearly, Micro-Managing.

The question is, will this "E-sport" be an actual sport, a respected sport, like Chess or Boxing or any Olympic event?
Or will this "E-sport" be a sport in the same sense that Professional Wrestling is a sport? Are the outcomes of tournaments to be scripted by Riot?
Will it take skill to win a tournament, or just picking the champions that Riot wants to showcase for whatever commercial reasons?


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Rakaydos

Senior Member

01-06-2013

You're complaining about "Melee only" and "Range only" as bias for one champ type over another. But look at the stacked case.

If you could use both on the same champ at the same time, your teamfight and waveclearing effectiveness would go through the roof, with 3 overlapping AD scaling blasts on every autoattack. Skip building crit, just max attack speed and AD.

They're just too good together. So rather than finding a way to justify to completely different items having a the same named unique passive, they gave the one that was best used by ranged a "range only" descripter, and the one with a melee active a "melee only" discripter. Even on Jayce, Kayle, Nidalie, and Elise, the two will never meet in an abuse case, barring projectile-in-air shenangans.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

01-06-2013

None of your arguments hold water, and comparing it to Chess only hurts you because then you could just plain turn it around on Chess.

Why can't the Rook move Diagonally? Why is the Knight the only piece capable of L-Shaped movement? Why is the most important piece in the game only a slight bit stronger than a Pawn, the most expendable?

Because that's how the creator of the game designed it. Plain and simple.

Assassins were brought back into competitive play, and mages have a longer span of effectiveness due to the penetration and MR changes.

Fighters have been weakened comparatively by gutting their ability to build efficient defenses in minimal slots.

Tanks have been strengthened comparatively because dedicated defense builds don't work on fighters, but work on tanks.

AD carries can acquire their building blocks for bigger items faster. This lets them have a bigger presence in early / mid game.

AP Supports have been given many new options and overall gold generation and sight wards have freed up a majority of their budget.

Several items have been added that have no clear "best slot" for it to take, but open up numerous avenues on different champions (Muramana, Hydra, and revamped Malady)


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Autocthon

Senior Member

01-06-2013

Forgot about the fact that offense/defense hybrid items are considerably more effective on tanks because they're less crippling to their tank builds.

See:

Abyssal
Iceborn Gauntlet
Sunfire


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Rakaydos

Senior Member

01-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocthon View Post
Forgot about the fact that offense/defense hybrid items are considerably more effective on tanks because they're less crippling to their tank builds.

See:

Abyssal
Iceborn Gauntlet
Sunfire
I've started going back to Atmogs on a couple champs. Warmog + Atmas + SV is well rounded and is synergistic by design.


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Lunar Lightning

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-07-2013

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...4#post33252204

take a look at this


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