Xin Zhao is anti-fun and ridiculously OP

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UgIierBetty

Senior Member

01-07-2013

For some reason Xin is the only champion that doesn't seem to be affected by my W.

For most champions I can put it down, attack them, back off, not get hit.

But with Xin, if I hit him once, he can easily get his whole combo off on me, and then I'm almost dead.


I guess from now on against Xin I have to only use W to get away and hide (which isn't much what I would like my playstyle to be... but I guess I have to).


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adc

Member

01-07-2013

Or you could, you know, pick champions that can straight up duel with Xin Zhao and not bother with a hero he's good at laning against?


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Helter Kremlin

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Yeah, he's a tough cookie. He has a tripple nuke ending in a pop-up, an attack speed buff with a third strike healing passive, a catch with a slow attached to it and an AOE knock-back ult with damage. Sounds pretty damn OP, right? Well it isn't.
If you are careless and treat Xin like he's a fish out of water, then yes, he will kill you damn near every time. Can't flat out take him? Poke him down some first.
Akali has range and should use it to poke in the beginning anyways. Xin is among the 1v1 terminators, like Jax, Wukong and several others. If you let him get away with being himself then you will lose.


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barbeerian

Member

01-07-2013

Xin isn't OP but he's extremely strong at level 1/2/3 it's understandable that people who don't face him often get facerolled. Xin's Q (Three Talon Strike) is probably one of the best skills in the game in terms of raw level 1 killing power [for those who don't know, it powers up his next 3 AA's, also resets AA timer when activated, and the 3rd AA also knocks up your opponent]. So in 1 skill you get CC and a lot of bonus DPS at level 1.

At level 2 you get his gap closer (E). Just E to someone, AA, then hit Q and then try to AA them 3x, if you hit that 3rd one to knock them up you can AA them again. At this point they're well below 50% HP, so you just wait on cooldowns and then repeat. If they stayed in lane they're dead, even if they're under tower you can easily kill them but you'll probably need to burn your flash. For champs that don't have level 1 CC/escapes he's an absolute nightmare. You can straight up bully that type of champ at level 1 so they tower hug and lose XP, then as soon as you pop lvl 2 smash their little level 1 face in.

Xin is simply an amazing early duelist, and you have to play around that. Don't let him duel you, stay safe and CS. Xin is usually aggresive, and he'll probably end up pushing the lane to your side if he's looking to dive you for an early kill. Use that to setup a gank, the more he's pushed forward the more susceptible he is to one.

@OP. If you're playing Akali vs Xin you should really considering taking Shroud at level 1, he can't AA you if he can't see you, and his Q is all about AA'ing the hell outta someone. I know you wanna grab your Q first so you can last hit and harass from a distance but what good is harassing if you wind up feeding him an early kill.

As for an anti-dive tactic as Akali, try this. So you're hanging out just outside your tower range, and you see him E-ing towards you. Flash under your tower while he's flying towards you (timing is probably tough at first, but it's similar to flashing MaoKai's twisted advance), then drop your shroud on his exit path. He'll hit you once, then be getting pounded by the tower while you're safe and stealthed. He'll be trying to walk through a slow so he's going to take serious damage, and have to burn his flash as well. He has no escapes without flash, setup a gank with your jungler and profit.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

01-07-2013

I think shroud is probably best for level 2 still. If you don't have your Q, you have no ranged harass or farm ability. You're pretty much giving up on getting any last hits till level 2 if you take W first.


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barbeerian

Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
I think shroud is probably best for level 2 still. If you don't have your Q, you have no ranged harass or farm ability. You're pretty much giving up on getting any last hits till level 2 if you take W first.
This is true that you lose out on harass/easier CS, but IMHO it's better to survive and miss 5-10 CS than to straight up die if Xin causes that many problems for your champ early on. You can still use your shroud to snag a few safe CS as well (though of course the CD prevents you from using it like that very often).


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War Wolf 6

Member

01-07-2013

Xin is actually strong early game or in you case "OP".He's strong early game because he falls off mid/late game. It's happened to me before, Kill everyone at the start then buy your gear but by then your not doing so much damage anymore. I would know, I'm a Xin player. His Q activates an Armor Pen bonus. But the way your describing the player you went against leads me to believe that he knows Xin's OP and bought runes for him and set up masteries.
Xin is fine, he doesn't need a nerf


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Unless Xin took his E at level 1, it's going to be very difficult for him to get to you before you just walk away... since you know.... you'll be at range from him... farming with your Q, remember?

And if he did take his E at level 1, he's not going to have the damage from his Q or W before you get your W to again, just walk away.


Meanwhile, you're 5-10 cs closer to an item that will start to give you an edge over Xin.


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barbeerian

Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Unless Xin took his E at level 1, it's going to be very difficult for him to get to you before you just walk away... since you know.... you'll be at range from him... farming with your Q, remember?

And if he did take his E at level 1, he's not going to have the damage from his Q or W before you get your W to again, just walk away.


Meanwhile, you're 5-10 cs closer to an item that will start to give you an edge over Xin.
TBH the advice was more directed at the OP, who seemed to grab his Q first and get facerolled before he managed to even get his shroud. Personally I would go Q first vs Xin and just make sure I never stood in melee range, and also stayed on my side of the minion wave so that if he does attack me he's taking minion aggro, and at level 2+ I'd just shroud if he E'd in and let him tank minion hits while i chill in my stealth bubble, then Q him as he walked away.

Edited my first post to make that more clear


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UgIierBetty

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbeerian View Post
Xin isn't OP but he's extremely strong at level 1/2/3 it's understandable that people who don't face him often get facerolled. Xin's Q (Three Talon Strike) is probably one of the best skills in the game in terms of raw level 1 killing power [for those who don't know, it powers up his next 3 AA's, also resets AA timer when activated, and the 3rd AA also knocks up your opponent]. So in 1 skill you get CC and a lot of bonus DPS at level 1.

At level 2 you get his gap closer (E). Just E to someone, AA, then hit Q and then try to AA them 3x, if you hit that 3rd one to knock them up you can AA them again. At this point they're well below 50% HP, so you just wait on cooldowns and then repeat. If they stayed in lane they're dead, even if they're under tower you can easily kill them but you'll probably need to burn your flash. For champs that don't have level 1 CC/escapes he's an absolute nightmare. You can straight up bully that type of champ at level 1 so they tower hug and lose XP, then as soon as you pop lvl 2 smash their little level 1 face in.

Xin is simply an amazing early duelist, and you have to play around that. Don't let him duel you, stay safe and CS. Xin is usually aggresive, and he'll probably end up pushing the lane to your side if he's looking to dive you for an early kill. Use that to setup a gank, the more he's pushed forward the more susceptible he is to one.

@OP. If you're playing Akali vs Xin you should really considering taking Shroud at level 1, he can't AA you if he can't see you, and his Q is all about AA'ing the hell outta someone. I know you wanna grab your Q first so you can last hit and harass from a distance but what good is harassing if you wind up feeding him an early kill.

As for an anti-dive tactic as Akali, try this. So you're hanging out just outside your tower range, and you see him E-ing towards you. Flash under your tower while he's flying towards you (timing is probably tough at first, but it's similar to flashing MaoKai's twisted advance), then drop your shroud on his exit path. He'll hit you once, then be getting pounded by the tower while you're safe and stealthed. He'll be trying to walk through a slow so he's going to take serious damage, and have to burn his flash as well. He has no escapes without flash, setup a gank with your jungler and profit.
Thank you for the advice! (And the way you described it is basically exactly what happened).

I'll use that strategy the next time I go up against Xin!