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KSing: Why it's good.

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LoudFootSteps

Senior Member

01-06-2013

Quote:
AD Bottom:
You really don't get it, do you? If I'm playing TF mid lane, and I get a kill on the enemy laner, I can buy boots on top of the other stuff I get on the way back. If I only get an assist, however, I don't get that benefit. 12 CS is two waves. That's a HUGE deal, and if you're playing at a level it isn't, I can see why you'd think a maokai kill is better than a TF kill.

Yes, assists are great, and KSes can a lot of the time be called a kill secure not a kill steal. However, Maokai jungle isn't going to put the gold to better use than a mid laner, especially not if that mid laner is an early game champion. Taric won't get as much out of 300 gold as Vayne will. Why do you think Taric should be stealing the kill from Vayne "because that gives you some more gold"? It's gold that Taric won't use anywhere near as effectively as Vayne will.


I just wanted to say that a Maokai jungle who gets the kill will have an easier time jungling, as well as better ganks for your team. And a Taric getting a kill is just a bad Taric, not a ksing one, especially since Taric can dish out really good burst with his w and r at the same time which can be easy to unintentionally ks with.


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Taarki

Recruiter

01-06-2013

Quote:
Akimasu:
Can't tell if you're joking or not.

It's basic math: Which is better for your team? 300 gold, or 450 gold?

For starters, Kills aren't worth THAT much. You're talking between 12-16 CS. That's it. That's all a kill is. A couple of minion waves. Yes, a Kill is very good if you can get it - but it's better if there's an assist on there as well.

if darius is ksing he probably already did some damage so he would get the assist which is still worth 450 gold, but the adc who needs gold more gets the majority 300 which is far better than 150 gold for them, which is why ksing is bad. ASSISTS are good, KSING is bad


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Gnomis Pervertus

Senior Member

01-06-2013

There's kill stealing, there's kill securing, and then there's "oh ****" kill steal.

Kill stealing is clearly when you just jump in and grab the absolutely gauranteed kill because you're a jerk. Don't deny it, most of us have done it. Even I've done it... I think...

There's kill securing where, despite the fact that your adc, or mid, or whatever could've gotten the kill, there's also a 50% chance the enemy could also get away. Better he dies and someone gets the gold, than he get away and no one gets anything.

Then there's "oh ****" kill stealing, which is the most common form of kill steal. This is most often where your support steals the kill from adc, or where the pentakill is stolen. It's in no way intentional, it's simply, you're contributing to the team fight and/or trying to innocently grab an assist(who wants to deny their teammates assists?) and just accidentally grab the kill. It's usually just a lucky(unlucky?) autoattack in most cases.

Admit it, most of the times you have ks'd, or been ks'd, have been the "oh ****" variety. Or occured in a team fight where it doesn't matter who got the kill, as long as you win the fight.


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Anglory

Member

01-06-2013

Yes I think that the definition of KSing is nebulous here; it depends on whether or not the KSer would have gotten the assist. The way the OP is written presumes that the KSer never had a chance to get the assist, thus the total gold is now 450 for the team instead of 300. However, if the original-KSer instead got the assist, it would be 450 gold still, but presumably better for the team overall if a carry, or more important player, gets it.


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Elefes

Senior Member

01-06-2013

I just HATE when goddamned jungler comes in a fight AFTER I've already comboed opponent and just last hits ignited target -.- Same with support hitting 30 hp target that is in my range. If it's risky 2v2, though, I am happy as long as anybody gets a kill.


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Dotayy

Senior Member

01-06-2013

WOW! Everyone is just missing the point. the point is, dont TRY to KS but if someone does, Dont make a big deal out of it and just move on.

ALSO, if your jungler KS APC/ADC he can get BOM and gank your lanes a lot faster. think about it.

Anyway you look at it, its a team game.

IF your support KS, they can get shurelya and give you that boost or get aegis. It benifits your lane alot. Or thy can rush Ruby/regular Sight Stone. How much more help would it be to have 3 active wards so you CANT get ganked (unless they got nocturne)

So think positively during the game and you will do a lot better.


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xHeimtechZX

Senior Member

01-11-2013

I rather get the assist as support, since I have gp10 items/masteries/runes, while my adc doesn't. If I do get a kill early game, its going to leave me a bigger advantage (having Philo earlier and more wards), though later on in the game, me getting kills won't be as useful as me getting the assists while my carry gets the kills (or anyone else in the matter), as I serve the same utility and have the gp10 items/masteries/runes with me at all time.
Wards can cost a lot, but your team can buy wards too. Supports aren't the only ones that should buy wards. If I am the only one, I'll get a Ruby Sightstone and 1-5 wards (depending if I can buy) and put off anything else.


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Nakawaka

Senior Member

01-12-2013

I want to mention that KSing is also about time efficiency going both ways. If it's a team fight there's no wasting time to lay off whoever is attacking the ap/adc but if it's a successful gank with no counter gank, derping a tower or farming while your adc had the kill on autoattack would be more beneficial. It's not likely people would retaliate much when they're praying for run. But if the chase is going to last for some time, get rid of the target since s/he just wants to buy time for teammates to respawn/etc.

In some situation, it's also a question of luck/skill and control; just because a target looks like it's going to die doesn't mean it would not do a final gambit. Do you really want to risk your main attacker dying just for that "no KS" code of honor?


Quote:
xHeimtechZX:

Wards can cost a lot, but your team can buy wards too. Supports aren't the only ones that should buy wards. If I am the only one, I'll get a Ruby Sightstone and 1-5 wards (depending if I can buy) and put off anything else.


Agreed. Having your support bow down and roam just to do one ward to protect the lane you weren't assigned to is a little ridiculous. They are here in team fights because their kit makes a difference and they can't foresee every warding spot nor they can babysit everywhere. Want your blue? Ward and protect yourself, I'm already having my hands full somewhere else.

//Rant


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SupportOrWillAFK

Member

01-12-2013

Try not to KS from the critical members of your team (top, middle, ADC), but if it is to ensure kill or an accident, that's fine. If it happens, don't complain.

A kill is a kill. *shrug*

Edit: And the ward thing...hell yes. Everyone, and I mean everyone, can buy wards. If you don't have enough to buy that next piece on your b, then pick up a ward or two. If everyone followed this, there would be so many more close games. Also, I might make back my oracle money.


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Nakawaka

Senior Member

01-12-2013

I wonder if this set up works:

Support ~ 0 ~ 5 kills
Tank/Assasin - 5 ~ 10 kills
ADC/APC ~ Infinite kills

This of course is a rough estimate and doesn't factor assists/good farm/skill level that would give some other gold equivalent. I main on Akali and I found that 10 kills is fair enough on a good day if I earned them or couldn't coordinate the ADC to take the kill on gank prior to the peak. Hopefully this chart can leave room for less QQ and flexibility because while nobody likes to go against a fed Ezreal, a fed Darius or Diana isn't fun neither.