KSing: Why it's good.

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xMrSmilesx

Recruiter

01-06-2013

The TRUE KS is when you watch a fight happen and walk in after enemy is low health and use 1 ability to finish off that enemy when your teammate EASILY could have done it. I hate it when Kat, Darius, Teemo, etc does that to my Jax when I did all the work.

So I deliberately make sure intentionally Kill Steal them later in the game, and even better if I take away a Penta ... maybe I am a lil vindictive


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Akimasu

Senior Member

01-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
It's not.

Well, I mean it, really. If your ADC/Support are getting all the kills/assists and the enemy ADC/Support are just feeding, it really doesn't matter.

But let's say you've got ADC/Support on blue team and their ADC has 150 cs and 3 assists (0 kills), while the support on blue team has 3 kills and no assists, and then you've got purple team, and their ADC has 150 cs and 3 kills, and their support has 0 assists, then blue team may be in trouble come mid and late game.

That enemy ADC is ahead quite a bit of gold, and even though his support is down even more gold relative to the enemy support, supports are picked because of the utility they bring. Sure, and Aegis of the Legion can benefit your whole team with a nice armor aura, but look at it this way...


Whatever item aura team 1 is missing is made up for by the fact that their ADC is putting out more damage than the enemy ADC. Meanwhile, that support Blitzcrank can still yank you in and knock you up regardless of what items he built. Nunu's Bloodboil still does the same thing, and the slow on his E/ult is still just as strong.

The utility a support brings doesn't change that much with a little extra gold. They're better with more gold than less, but the ADC puts the gold to FAR better use.
It depends on what kind of support it is, When the kills were made, Etc. If Sona got 3 kills within the first 5 minutes - she could build damage and just harass them both out of lane, with little to nothing they could do in return. If you're talking 25 minutes in, 150 cs, no kills have gone out anywhere, and suddenly a kill opportunity arises..well then yeah, the ADC probably should have taken it - but at that point I don't think I would consider any kill secure until they hit the floor - especially in a perfectly even lane.

However if the support gets 3 kills, and the enemy ADC STILL hits the same CS as your ADC, You're doing something horribly, horribly wrong.

Yes, there are times you shouldn't KS - but I don't think it's NEARLY as bad as people make it out to be, which was my point.


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fallenlightning

Junior Member

01-06-2013

i just wanna add to this that i agree with everyone on thereposts


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trackmaster

Senior Member

01-06-2013

This thread just goes back to saying supports should give all gold to adc because they will just waste it or something. ADCs are for late game, do you have any idea how much items like sightstone, runic bulward, reverie ect. actually help the team.

Supports with gold help soooo much. The thing is after about 8k they can't use gold very well since they spend it on utility, not damage. Untill that point, pour gold on a support if you want to win a teamfight.


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adc

Member

01-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by trackmaster View Post
This thread just goes back to saying supports should give all gold to adc because they will just waste it or something. ADCs are for late game, do you have any idea how much items like sightstone, runic bulward, reverie ect. actually help the team.

Supports with gold help soooo much. The thing is after about 8k they can't use gold very well since they spend it on utility, not damage. Untill that point, pour gold on a support if you want to win a teamfight.
Are you ****ting me? I'd rather a teamfight where my Ezreal has a TF and a BT and my support has a sightstone than a teamfight where my support has a sightstone and a bulwark and my Ezreal has a BT. The extra damage from your ADC is going to do more than the extra defensive stats will do, period. Yes, a bulwark on your support is an amazing thing, if you can afford it. But another damage item on your primary damage dealer, allowing him to get to his late game build faster, is even more amazing.


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Akimasu

Senior Member

01-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD Bottom View Post
Are you ****ting me? I'd rather a teamfight where my Ezreal has a TF and a BT and my support has a sightstone than a teamfight where my support has a sightstone and a bulwark and my Ezreal has a BT. The extra damage from your ADC is going to do more than the extra defensive stats will do, period. Yes, a bulwark on your support is an amazing thing, if you can afford it. But another damage item on your primary damage dealer, allowing him to get to his late game build faster, is even more amazing.
Wat. Are you play a lot of games where your support is getting 14 kills, and your ADC is getting 0 Kills & assists, and getting practically no CS, or something? Sounds to me like that bottom lane is getting completely dominated if there's a 4,200 gold swing between Adc and support - and the ADC is just being terrible. We've moved out of the realm of Kill Stealing, to the realm of a Support outright Carrying a terrible Ez.

At least give realistic scenarios..It's probably closer to a BT+Sheen+Dagger vs a BT+Sheen+Zeal - that's 725g worth, or 3 kills vs 3 assists worth(450g difference), where as your support is 900g vs 0g. So the question is: is 450g to your team worth A zeal from a Dagger on your ADC?


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HeroKillerz

Junior Member

01-06-2013

Easy answer Yes, No

Yes they are stealing the kill and taking 150 gold away from the team. Most champs have a utility ability that buffs up an ally \ so it's not very hard to get that extra assist cash. 1 time I was nid and I healed lee sin 10 seconds before he killed someone I was already back at base 100 gold short of a Dcap.

No becuz what ever method you use to kill as long as you can get through it quick and clean it's a win for your team. The down side to this is that the "KSER" gets more priority to be killed more than other champs. When I play Darius I try VERY VERY hard to not use my ultimate. Some people say I'm wasting that dunk hammer, but I think of it more rationally. The dunk cost around 2 normal abilities and the fact that I can dunk means that the opponent is already at melee range, slowed cuz of the w and a few auto attacks with a phage proct of 2 will do the job(except near tower I tend to dunk near towers mine especially)


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Sonicdahedgie

Member

01-06-2013

Ok, so how much damage does a support actually do? What are the chances of the support getting the killing hit? OH, you're still angry about kill stealing? Fine then, I just won't attack at all next fight. Lets see how well that turns out for you.


The support is going to get the kill some of the times. Hell, this is good. Do you know what was going to happen in that millisecond in between your two attacks? Do you know how many times I got a kill as support by casting a spell as they flashed, and have it hit on the other side of their flash? That happens a lot. Who's to say they weren't just about to flash when I killed them? You don't know what's going to happen at any moment in this game. Don't assume you had the kill. A good support will let you have the kill if it makes sense. But most of the time the battles are much too close to tell.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

01-06-2013

Part of the argument here is "The ADC is for late game."

Yeah, that's true. But guess what, laning phase, mid game, and late game are not measured by the game clock. For the ADC, they're measured by item build. And you get your item build by getting gold.


An ADC that has 500 extra gold is 500 gold closer to mid/late game than an ADC that doesn't have that 500 extra gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akimasu View Post
At least give realistic scenarios..It's probably closer to a BT+Sheen+Dagger vs a BT+Sheen+Zeal - that's 725g worth, or 3 kills vs 3 assists worth(450g difference), where as your support is 900g vs 0g. So the question is: is 450g to your team worth A zeal from a Dagger on your ADC?
Yes.

Because my support Nunu will still Bloodboil for the same movement speed and the same attack speed, and his snowball still slows them by the exact same percentage. He wasn't going to build AP to make his snowball hit any harder anyway, but my ADC has the extra crit chance, extra attack speed, AND extra movement speed from Zeal that the enemy ADC doesn't have. And especially the movement speed is valuable here.


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myunclesue

Junior Member

01-06-2013

As a support I have to agree that the adc needs the money more then I do. I can finish my build just fine because of GP/10 masteries and runes and the 5 or 6 assists I get from lane.