Teemo Toxic Shot Nerf...

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doomed2death

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Inb4 "Teemo sux remove him," I'd just like to preface this with the fact that Teemo is in no way overpowered, but he is rather underpowered relatively speaking and that is he's hated so much that reflects a design flaw, not a balance problem. Either way, seeing as he is the way he is right now, I'd like to mention some balance issues.

So without further ado...

Quote:
Toxic Shot
Ability Power ratio on impact reduced to 0.3 from 0.4
Okay I really hate this one because Toxic Shot is really the reason I play Teemo ever.

This nerf was likely in response to the new Malady buff that allows it to scale with AP. But... Well, you're nerfing Teemo under several assumptions.
1) He will get Malady. If he skips Malady that just makes him clearly weaker than he used to be. In my opinion, it's bad gameplay design to force a champion to build a certain item/path.
2) Malady will be the first item Teemo gets. Teemo needs to rush Malady for power comparable to the pre-nerf numbers (admittedly slightly stronger but still) during his early game.
3) Malady is affordable. And it isn't. And this is the biggest problem with the nerf. Teemo is weaker until he builds an item. The availability of an item is not a reason to nerf a champion. That means Teemo has to spend 2,000 gold just to be similarly viable. That's a very very evident nerf. Either Malady needs to be changed, the interaction has to be changed, or Toxic Shot has to be changed but you can't just nerf a champion's early game like that.
4) Teemo's Toxic Shot is overpowered. Orianna's passive skill gives her 20% AP scaling on her attacks that rises to 28% with just 2 hits. 2% shy of Teemo's new AP Scaling. If I were to compare Teemo with Malady + Nashor's (my personal core build) to Orianna with Malady + Nashor's, I'd probably like Orianna more! And she'd have more burst damage to boot! I'd also like to note that with Malady's nerfed base damage, Teemo does less damage overall. Especially since Attackspeed is costly now.


I'm going to ignore the shrooms (that's hated anyway) but talk about On-Hit Teemo. Deathcap got nerfed as well so on-hit AP Teemo suffered as it is but the nerf to his scaling hurts him on multiple counts until he builds a Malady. And by then, he's already put off other items that he might have preferred! I used to run Guinsoo Rageblade prenerf on a good game to snowball up some more. But now, it seems like I have to go Malady first or I risk losing midgame viability...


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SquirtingSquid

Member

12-31-2012

Delete Teemo.


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KoolK

Junior Member

12-31-2012

Mate the nerf was all a perfect reason. On-hit Teemo. With various items coming out and teemos scaling being relatively high it meant that buy Malady +Nashors for example and you wont need to activate an ability for the rest of the game.
Riot is trying to force new item builds and play styles. Pre nerf teemo was simple a right click and win, even tougher if you actually used your abilities but in most cases you didnt need to except to blind an adc.
Theyre trying to promote either full adc build or full ap where blind and shroom are your biggest damage dealers. On hit teemo was fun yes, ill admit i played him plenty, but i think its good riot is trying to change how he works.


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doomed2death

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolK View Post
Mate the nerf was all a perfect reason. On-hit Teemo.
Which is never really an on-hit build (Wit's End, Guinsoo Rageblade, Malady, LichBane/Triforce, Phage, etc.)

Quote:
With various items coming out and teemos scaling being relatively high it meant that buy Malady +Nashors for example and you wont need to activate an ability for the rest of the game.
I find that funnily untrue. His E is passive. You need his W to escape or to chase. His blind, is as you noted, very important. And his R still wards. So his gameplay hasn't changed much (though R nerf was... ugh). And passive play isn't really that discouraged or AD Carries wouldn't really be a big deal in the meta. Overall, the changes don't change that. And Nashor's has CDR for a reason.

Quote:
Riot is trying to force new item builds and play styles. Pre nerf teemo was simple a right click and win, even tougher if you actually used your abilities but in most cases you didnt need to except to blind an adc.
You use all your abilities... And there's nothing wrong with a simple champion. Look at Ryze or Annie. They're very easy to pick up. So is Katarina.

And the keyword here being "force." They shouldn't have to "Force" the players to do anything. Their game design should lead naturally to it.

Quote:
Theyre trying to promote either full adc build or full ap where blind and shroom are your biggest damage dealers. On hit teemo was fun yes, ill admit i played him plenty, but i think its good riot is trying to change how he works.
If they wanted to promote full ADC build, that means they shouldgive him some ad scaling and/or a steroid. But that hasn't happened so they're not helping his adc idea at all. And yeah, full AP sounds very nice and all? But then base shroom dmage got nerfed. Hard. Hrm. And then his E's AP ratio got nerfed?

They haven't promoted any particular bulid, just nerfed 2 of them and failed to incentivize a 3rd one. at all.

I don't see the point. I'm not proposing we immediately give him .4 ap scaling again, I'm saying something needs to change.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

12-31-2012

its not that he was too powerful, its just that people, were playing him. Youre not supposed to pick him unless youre trying to get a girl to consider playing. His only purpose is to keep the female playerbase above 1% with his cute factor


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doomed2death

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Which is a poor excuse to make him less viable.


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Tomukai

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Doesn't matter still dies in two shots.


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doomed2death

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomukai View Post
Doesn't matter still dies in two shots.
Can't tell if you're talking about Teemo or his target...


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Tsabo

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomed2death View Post
Can't tell if you're talking about Teemo or his target...
Teemo obviously, his target probably needs like 7-8 hits to be dead, if he's a tank probably more, what are you fighting, a 20/0 Teemo? haha.


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God Hammer

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-01-2013

Our team was down 10 kills and his shrooms carried us to victory.

deletes teemos please :l


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