Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Lee Sin nerfs being uncalled for... (Wall of Text)

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SiKkNdTwiSt3D

Senior Member

01-04-2013

yea. nerfs justifed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gammaran

Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Hidden Sniper:
He has A LOT of utility packed into his kit. I mean A LOT.

It really isn't surprising. I ban him every chance I get in ranked, because he will kill people early on, camp lanes, and in general be annoying all game long. Now if they would remove Darius's attack speed slow from his cripple I'd be a happy camper (another champion that has way too much in every one of his skills).

I also don't get why the OP says Lee is the worst in the early game... That is where he wins the game for his team...

Also, look at Ezreal. His W used to Heal, increase attack speed, and decrease attack speed. Now it only does one of those (Increasing ally attack speed). Corki's Q used to blind. Etc, etc. Champions sometimes have some utility taken away for game balance, and honestly Lee deserves some of it.



I never said his early was the worst, i said it was his best moment, but it starts to die out into the mid game unless you snowball. Look at shaco he is much more stronger early game, with insane invades, cc, ganks, dueling ability, but then he falls of harder than lee late and he isnt a problem.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gammaran

Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Zhico:
But its also an amazing gap closer, escape, save w.e you want to call it, it already gives insane amouts of stuff




But i feel that it is probably going to be a 1 point wonder in the jungle, im not a top lane so i dont know what they will level first but it removes some flexibility in the jungle


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Grimwohl

Senior Member

01-04-2013

I'm sorry, cause lee sin isn't ridiculous right now.
People who get banned all the time regardless of your or their team comp are obviously in need of nerfbat, on different levels.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gammaran

Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Kersallus:
I'm sorry, cause lee sin isn't ridiculous right now.
People who get banned all the time regardless of your or their team comp are obviously in need of nerfbat, on different levels.



how is that true? shen is still banned all the time, so is shaco. There are low soloq pub stompers that doesn't mean he is unbalanced


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

50West

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Kersallus:
I'm sorry, cause lee sin isn't ridiculous right now.
People who get banned all the time regardless of your or their team comp are obviously in need of nerfbat, on different levels.


Just because a champ is continuously banned doesn't mean they are OP. Some champions are just so annoying to play against that it is easier to ban them out. Yes, you could make a team strategy to counter that champion, but in SoloQ team communication is much more difficult and is simply easier to ban out certain champs (e.g. Shen, Evelynn, Amumu, Malphite, Morgana, Alistar, etc...). Anyway, lets be honest, most people ban champions because that is what is being banned in tournaments at the time. I frequently see people ban Kassadin and then they run a full AD team comp. Lets not forget that Kassadin used to be banned 24/7, hasn't seen any nerfs or buffs, and now people don't ban him at all anymore. Pro players ban the champions that counter the team comp they are trying to run.

I think the majority of people will agree that Lee Sin needed nerfs. While I hate saying that about high skill cap champions, as mastering them should certainly be rewarded, Lee simply has the "whole package". Good sustain, amazing ganks, solid early to late game, high mobility and damage, AoE slow, etc. As a Lee Sin player, I certainly see where the nerfs are coming from. In my latest games I have been banning Lee pretty regularly.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

kazetenshu

Senior Member

01-04-2013

I like it when people start of saying certain nerfs are uncalled for and then fallow up with saying its their favorite champion.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tutor Lundist

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Lee Sin will still be great.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eternal Demøn

Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Gammaran:
PBE CHANGES: Safeguard no longer refunds energy when broken down from half refunded if broken. Iron Will's Life Steal and Spell Vamp increased to 5/10/15/20/25% from 5/9/13/17/21% Iron Will no longer grants bonus armor down from 10/15/20/25/30 armor. Cripple's slow / attack speed slow reduced to 20/30/40/50/60% from 30/37.5/45/52.5/60%


This is only my take but let me start off by saying i probably have around 500 lee sin games between my 2 accounts so i can say its my favorite champion and he is the most fun i ever had playing any other character in any other game. He is the only reason i have ever expended real money to get a skin. The one thing i don't like about him is how punishing his kit is should you misplay even in the slightest. I have taken that to a challenge and decided to play him to the best of my capabilities and i have found baffled by this nerfs.


Season 3 jungle changes really hurt Lee Sin clear and unlike other junglers like Olaf/Mundo/Maokai/Nocturne he doesn't scale really well into late game. His game dominance is reduced to early game and the start of mid game. So you are trading his armor and energy gain for 1% of life steal and spell vamp on levels.


His clear without a smite-less leash made him low enough to pull off a gank but now as i tested on the PBE you are too low to pull of a gank so you have even less time to actually pull of a gank. His early game strength was already countered by wards, the same way as shaco. As every lane can start with wards and not be heavily punished for it.


His dueling got a lot worst, especially early game, as the armor and energy gain made him able to, if played perfectly, to stand toe to toe with good duelist. Now i don't think Lee can fend off shyvana's, Xin Zhao's or Olaf's invades.


His only method of gaining energy other than auto-attacking got removed. So other junglers that excel into slowing attack speed such as Malphite make him even a bigger counter than before.


His items viability and tanking ability also got hurt, since with that 30 armor late game you could buy some hp mixed with ad and still be efficient. Now i fear that should you fall behind as Lee Sin, you will have a even worst late game since his kit doesn't provide any tanking ability for him to peel of for his ad or ap carry, or even worst go fish for the enemy ad. How is he going to endure the assault from the ad carry and enemy tank line, especially with his new impairment of not being able to refund some energy back should you miss one. He is even more punishing as a character for misplays, which is not fun at all. Missing one of his skills is going not only to leave him either stranded between the enemy team with no ability to tank but also no ability to gain some energy back from any of your skills.


How is it fair that other junglers got even faster in their jungle with the season 3 changes but Lee's got slower? Also to add insult to injury riot decides to nerf him on multiple areas. Especially his early game, removing core elements from his kit like the energy refund. Also making his first clear a bit more dangerous.


No idea why you call this a wall of text.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NiGhtMaRiK

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Lee sin will fall in popularity, become less played and forgotten.

While Darius, Riven, Irelia, Olaf, Jayce, and others Hold up the Bruiser Position. You Know, because all of them are perfectly balanced and Lee was the worst offender of OP out of them all.

Farewell Dear Friend

"You have not earned victory this day."


123