New Lightbringer Passive: No Shrooms for Teemo

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Snoop Nome

Game Designer

01-04-2013
4 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jixson View Post
I don't want to throw this off, but wasn't the reason Mundo was obliterated so long ago because he dominated TT?

So, you really can't say that line is true.
Wasn't here when it happened, so I can't comment on it. What I said is how we currently operate though.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Malurth

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jixson View Post
I don't want to throw this off, but wasn't the reason Mundo was obliterated so long ago because he dominated TT?

So, you really can't say that line is true.
I think he was nerfed because of TT, but it wasn't much.

The people jungled him on SR and found out that he was still OP even on SR, and then he got nerfed more.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lhyanc

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I'll fix it to not reveal traps in brush unless you're in it too
Seems more fair.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ahlen

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
He's much less problematic on Summoner's Rift, which is where champion balance is directed. We're not going to wreck him on SR because he's too strong on Dominion or Twisted Treeline. A competent Teemo player still has plenty of tools even without depending on minefields.
Mostly because his Q is so ridiculously amazing, and completely wins any 1v1 against any AD. Would of loved to have seen his blind duration nerfed down.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Arance

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Not a fan of this change, honestly. It feels like it nerfs one of the more interesting aspects of shrooms/boxes in lieu of addressing the core issues that make them so problematic in Dom/TT. To wit, shrooms/boxes are both balanced around having a relatively small chance of being triggered on SR. But on Dom/TT the shorter game lengths, smaller map, and very frequent and predictably traveled paths and relative ease of invading 'enemy territory' give them a near 100% chance of being triggered. So, then the trap's duration, high damage, BFT burn, significant CC and extremely rapid deployment combine to make, well, Teemo.

(Oh, I forgot to expand on why out of all those I consider invisibility to be the interesting part. It's because invisibility is the only part of it that provides some counter-play, observing, remembering, and avoiding where the shrooms/boxes were placed.)

Will this new Lightbringer effect curb some of Teemo's power? Undoubtedly, but I question to what degree and in which situations. Firstly, Teemo's shrooms are scariest when his team holds Windmill and he is given free reign to toss them anywhere, most likely in the enemy team's direct path to Windmill. With the new change, a player with Lightbringer can still easily trip a shroom walking into brush or taking a corner too quickly; but assuming they don't and are cautious, in the best case scenario for the player shrooms can still be easily placed to force the player to stop and autoattack, avoiding the damage but likely slowing down the player's charge more than the shroom's slow would and alerting the enemy. When the player's team holds the Windmill, they will have more leeway to hunt and dispatch shrooms, but this is also the time period when the shrooms are generally more ineffective already. Mid fight, Lightbringer is apt to bring little change since most shrooms can be observed being placed or are revealed by the tower and therefore their trigger rate will mostly stay the same.

So, will Lightbringer be enough to dethrone Teemo's status of God of Dominion? Possible, mostly because Kassadin has been achingly close to usurping him for a while anyways. But I'm skeptical it'll bring Teemo to a real "in-line" state. Most good its likely to do is psychologically demotivate players from picking him every game, which I guess is an improvement, if not a true fix.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jixson

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Recruiter

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malurth View Post
I think he was nerfed because of TT, but it wasn't much.

The people jungled him on SR and found out that he was still OP even on SR, and then he got nerfed more.
I am saying I remember a time when I first started, and some people played him on SR, and he was just a meat wall who did no damage. This was Season 1 so not many people used him in the jungle, and he just kind of was there on SR.

However there was a period where every patch or two he was getting his ult regen, his ult recharge time, his cleaver, his passive getting nerfed constantly, and it wasn't because of SR. It was all because of TT. Same for Jax(who needs to be brought in line still, but whatever).

I kind of appreciate that Riot may have finally decided that op on TT, and unplayable already on SR is not going to make them ever worse on SR. Looking at you Poppy, who still sucks on SR(overall), but dominates ARAM, TT, and Dominion, but you can't buff her because she is already op on other maps it seems.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FioraIsMaiWaifu

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
He's much less problematic on Summoner's Rift, which is where champion balance is directed. We're not going to wreck him on SR because he's too strong on Dominion or Twisted Treeline. A competent Teemo player still has plenty of tools even without depending on minefields.
How badly would it affect him to just reduce the duration of his mushrooms from ten minutes? One of the most potent things about the ability is that we lack wards on Dominion. His 'wards' have a shelf life of ten minutes, assuming that no one triggers them, and he has the potential to have forty placed at one time. Lowering their duration on the map seems like an easy way to handle the mushroom problem.

The problem with The Lightbringer not revealing traps in the brush is that there are places where they can be placed that you won't be able to kill them without entering the brush, which is going to trigger the mushrooms. Hurting Jack in the Box nests in favor of preventing a situation where the item you buy to counter traps doesn't counter traps seems like a good idea. It also discourages people from thinking that Shaco is the best champion on the map, which I know is something that you brought up in one of your previous posts.

You might also want to look at how much damage reduction mushrooms have. There seems to be some wonky problems with the mushrooms and how long they've been placed. Mushrooms aren't difficult to destroy when they've been placed and you attack them, but they seem to get a startlingly high amount of damage reduction the moment that they're "invisible", even when they're being revealed. It is definitely weird that I can destroy them when they're freshly placed on the ground as an AP champion using a single attack but invisibility somehow makes them durable enough to take several attacks to destroy.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gribblez

Senior Member

01-04-2013

RiotNome,

What about changing the way the passives on the item work. The item in itself seems like its a bit overwhelming and offering entirely to much. Why not change the passive so that is merges into the activated ability of the item? It would grant detection in the area and have a cooldown, you could even lower the cooldown a bit. It seems like this is way to much of a hosedown on Teemo players because this item will (as it is now) literally shut down a huge portion of what it means to play Teemo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
He's much less problematic on Summoner's Rift, which is where champion balance is directed. We're not going to wreck him on SR because he's too strong on Dominion or Twisted Treeline. A competent Teemo player still has plenty of tools even without depending on minefields.
While I agree with this statement, I also have to disagree. The only other tool he really has is speed and a blind. So of his 3 damaging abilities, you are giving players an item to effectively shut that portion of his damage down, or at least tone it down so much that its no longer a threat. Not to mention that this item will also hurt Shaco in a way. Negating a champions abilities in this manner is not an effective way to balance a champion towards a map.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Orphane

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Teemo players shutdown a huge portion of what it means to play Dominion, so I think it balances out.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

A Slime Appears

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gribblez View Post
While I agree with this statement, I also have to disagree. The only other tool he really has is speed and a blind. So of his 3 damaging abilities, you are giving players an item to effectively shut that portion of his damage down, or at least tone it down so much that its no longer a threat. Not to mention that this item will also hurt Shaco in a way. Negating a champions abilities in this manner is not an effective way to balance a champion towards a map.
He is still ridiculously frustrating for most AD characters even if he never presses R. If I remember right the reveal range is only 450, which is less than most ADC's attack ranges. People will still hit his shrooms even if they have the reveal, just less. Also, it won't reveal them in a bush, which is one of the best places to put them.

Also, being a scumbag is what it means to play Teemo. Any reduction in scumbaggery is cool with me.