ELO is dumb

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adc

Member

01-02-2013

"It is also used as a rating system for multiplayer competition in a number of video games,[1] and has been adapted to team sports including association football, American college football, basketball, and Major League Baseball."

Don't worry, Major League Baseball? Yeah, they're a bunch of idiots that don't know what they're doing.


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TheRealBOBDOLE

Member

01-02-2013

You seem to have completely missed the point. The ELO in those team games aren't based on the idiot and moronic system of simply win/loss. They are stats based and are adapted for individual players in the game. One person doesn't get screwed because their team is bad. Because they still have their personal stats. In LoL, Riot was too dumb to see that a binary win/loss system doesn't work right. Your personal stats mean nothing, because it is all based on either 1-win or 0-loss.


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adc

Member

01-02-2013

And how would you suggest they do it, then?


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McFace

Senior Member

01-02-2013

I don't think anyone at Riot is "too dumb" to understand the issues with the ranking system they chose to implement in their game.

They feel like it is the best way to go about things. If you don't enjoy the game because of how they do the ranking then just quit. Simple.


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TheRealBOBDOLE

Member

01-02-2013

Thats as stupid as telling someone to stop working out because they mention they are sore. They don't want to stop. But that doesn't mean they wont mention they hurt a little. And honestly i would suggest they talk to some other developers. Bungie in particular came up with a way to do it in Halo: Reach. Not only that, but they laid out the math in a news post. Riot could just jack it like they did ELO.


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adc

Member

01-02-2013

The TrueSkill system (Microsoft, not sure if it came from Halo) is much more complex, and the implementation I saw for DotACash (a community + bot on WC3 that ran DotA games) still took into account wins and losses.

The TS system, however, assumes that a 2.5k Elo player can play with a 300 Elo player, which won't happen in the current matchmaking system.


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TheRealBOBDOLE

Member

01-02-2013

I wasn't referencing the TrueSkill system. Thats Microsoft. Bungie designed their own ranking system for the ARENA that they added in Halo: Reach. It was basically an algorithm that allowed someone to do very well on their team and be awarded for it, even if their team mates were totally and completely terrible. It took into account things that you did in the game, and at the very end it took into account the win or loss. That way, out of two people that did exactly the same, but were on different teams, the winning team player would have a slightly better score. But the losing team player, would still have the good score they earned.


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McFace

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealBOBDOLE View Post
Thats as stupid as telling someone to stop working out because they mention they are sore. They don't want to stop. But that doesn't mean they wont mention they hurt a little. And honestly i would suggest they talk to some other developers. Bungie in particular came up with a way to do it in Halo: Reach. Not only that, but they laid out the math in a news post. Riot could just jack it like they did ELO.
If you have a big problem with something, then you should stop using/doing/being around that thing. What you are describing is a minor issue, I was thinking major issue. I think we are having a miss communication (as I would agree with you in that analogy).

Anyway, I feel like there will be issues with any system that is used to rank players in, as you said, a dynamic team game where you aren't forced to have a pre-made team. No matter what system there is there are going to be complaints. Is the Elo system perfect? No. Is the ranked system in Halo perfect? No.

There is no guarantee that another system would work as well in LoL as it does in another game.


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TheRealBOBDOLE

Member

01-02-2013

The main problem here is that one person is basically punished for 4 other peoples actions. That isnt right in ANY ranking system. I would like them to adjust it so that we could still do well (or at the very least just get +-0 elo) and not be punished for others bad games or trolling.

And on top of that, a system that "expects you to lose" just isnt right. Both teams should have a 50/50 chance or as close as possible.


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andoth

Senior Member

01-02-2013

they do get it as close as possible, but if your on the 49.8%chance and there on 50.2% they get a minor difference. if the game waited for a perfect 50-50 based on


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