Thoughts on ELO.

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Animalio

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Junior Member

01-01-2013

Before I start, I want this to be a purely discussion based post. I have an idea, and I want to see what the community, and what Riot employees think about this.

I've been playing this game for 3 years, and I started Ranked in league of legends about 6 months ago. I think that ELO is a highly controversial system on the way it judges it's players. You get teamed with 4 other random individuals, and you are judged on how well you work with 4 random individuals. (this is solo que obviously.)

Now say you work really well with those 4 people in your first game, you guys communicate well, you guys get the win. You gain 20~ ELO. Next game, you get someone who is demanding top, but he's last pick! You're first pick, your best lane is top. You want top.... Now you all know how this ends up, someone trolls and the inevitable loss occurs.

This is all well, say you win your lane, you try and help the team as much as you can and you guys just don't win the game. I know all too well, about the feeling that you didn't really lose. I feel like if I played well enough to win the game, but your team didn't use your potential you should be based on your potential.

Now here's my idea: You search for Solo que. You're fresh into Ranked and this box pops up...

TOP [ ]
MID [ ]
JUNGLE [ ]
ADC [ ]
SUPPORT [ ]

If you are a player of World of Warcraft, you should know where I'm heading with this.

Say you choose Mid, you click it, and the que starts. When you press select match, you are paired with a Top, a Jungle, an ADC, and a Support. Everyone gets their best lanes, no one argues about what they are playing because everyone knows. I think this should be implemented. I don't see any faults with this, and if you do I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

Now this next part might be a little odd, I think if you play well, have a not completely terrible average, have a nice amount of assists (to prove you are trying to help your team) They should rate ELO upon this. In solo que of course. I just think that solo que rating should be determined on how you perform. I think this helps everyone! You can see where you need to improve on, and everyone is actually where they belong. On how they attempt to help their team and secure the win.

This is highly experimental, and I would like to see Riot provide their opinions on this. And the community as well.

This is from a devoted customer and player of league of legends


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Selcopa

Senior Member

01-01-2013

Not a new concept.

Still bad.


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Nikkins

Junior Member

01-01-2013

I like the idea of choosing your role before entering.


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Animalio

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Junior Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
Not a new concept.

Still bad.
I'd like you to explain why :< but if you're just going to jump the bandwagon thats fine too.


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FeedingTroll

Senior Member

01-01-2013

There used to never exist that type of meta, back then at S1, it was:
ROAMER [ ]
TANK [ ]
JUNGLE [ ]
AP CARRY [ ]
AD CARRY [ ]

No calling lanes, just counter your own lane.


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NaginataX

Senior Member

01-02-2013

I like where you're going with this but I do have to agree with FeedingTroll where the idea of having prespecified role (or multiple roles), only fits with what people consider "the meta". The rules don't specify that a team HAS to have a top, mid, jungle, and 2 bot but it's common practice because jungle frees up exp and provides ganks for top and mid (since it isn't a duo lane), or that a team "must have" a support. Matter of fact, I played a "bot kill lane" as twitch with a corki and tore the opposing team's bot lane apart. Again, the game doesn't require a player to be a certain type of champ in a specific lane.

Another problem is that the system has no way of enforcing the roles. With your suggestion, I could easily chose "jungle" and select a champion like leblanc who is completely unfeasible and considered trolling.

Last critique is that if you rank solely on how you yourself plays, what's the point of "winning" a match? I'd just roam and ks until my KDA ratio was good enough to get me elo for the match, regardless if we win or lose.


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Animalio

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Junior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaginataX View Post
I like where you're going with this but I do have to agree with FeedingTroll where the idea of having prespecified role (or multiple roles), only fits with what people consider "the meta". The rules don't specify that a team HAS to have a top, mid, jungle, and 2 bot but it's common practice because jungle frees up exp and provides ganks for top and mid (since it isn't a duo lane), or that a team "must have" a support. Matter of fact, I played a "bot kill lane" as twitch with a corki and tore the opposing team's bot lane apart. Again, the game doesn't require a player to be a certain type of champ in a specific lane.

Another problem is that the system has no way of enforcing the roles. With your suggestion, I could easily chose "jungle" and select a champion like leblanc who is completely unfeasible and considered trolling.

Last critique is that if you rank solely on how you yourself plays, what's the point of "winning" a match? I'd just roam and ks until my KDA ratio was good enough to get me elo for the match, regardless if we win or lose.
Again, this is true. There are some kinks to work out. And it'd be impossible to limit certain champions to a role because of the viable champions changing often. And I agree with the last part, but how do you think they should make solo que, more "solo"?

EDIT: Also on the fact that there are no roles, I think that this will also change up new team comps and etc. You aren't forced to do anything. You are going with the meta, the meta is what everyone agrees upon. When teams don't follow the meta, it usually doesn't end well. Which is why it's common to follow the meta, and why it's called the "meta." I think that Riot can dictate what defines the meta, but if people are practicing different things in normals, or maybe they can have a monthly vote to keep or change the meta? Then people will be able to actively change what the meta will be, if needed.


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Animalio

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Junior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingTroll View Post
There used to never exist that type of meta, back then at S1, it was:
ROAMER [ ]
TANK [ ]
JUNGLE [ ]
AP CARRY [ ]
AD CARRY [ ]

No calling lanes, just counter your own lane.
The meta could be whatever the community agrees on? This is S3, not S1. The meta changes. And it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you choose your champion and you go top. If you choose top and roam all game that's up to you.


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Bizzzing

Junior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
The meta could be whatever the community agrees on? This is S3, not S1. The meta changes. And it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you choose your champion and you go top. If you choose top and roam all game that's up to you

Doesn't this statement essentially refute your entire arguement? You basically just said it doesn't matter if you actually play top or not you just need to select it. In my opinion this would make it even worse. If I was playing and some guy in chat said, "Hey i'm gunna roam is that cool with you guys?" at least I can make a choice on if I want to play with that guy. The way you want it set up I would assume the guy would actually be in top lane and then be very surprised when he wandered around as soon as the game started.

You agree that the meta changes? Then why in the world would you try to have Riot establish a list of choices you have to pick from? I'm assuming if the community is deciding it would be through plurality and not majority which would almost assuredly leave a majority of people unhappy. Basically Riot would cause needless grief to its players and have to continually hold a vote and redo the system on a regular basis.

Finally in my opinion unless you are High Elo the meta can be extremely flexible, even in ranked. In low elo solo queue if I go bruiser/adc bot im sure we will dominate the lane even though it's not the meta. Ever seen Low Elo players mesh together seamlessly? Neither have I. Even if the adc/bruiser do their own thing for the most part they can still dominate. The bruiser hardly needs any help to kill a squishy early-mid game and all the adc needs to do is not tower dive. It kind of irks me how when things like this are discussed it's automatically assumed that all the players in question are of professional caliber.


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Animalio

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Junior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizzzing View Post
Doesn't this statement essentially refute your entire arguement? You basically just said it doesn't matter if you actually play top or not you just need to select it. In my opinion this would make it even worse. If I was playing and some guy in chat said, "Hey i'm gunna roam is that cool with you guys?" at least I can make a choice on if I want to play with that guy. The way you want it set up I would assume the guy would actually be in top lane and then be very surprised when he wandered around as soon as the game started.

You agree that the meta changes? Then why in the world would you try to have Riot establish a list of choices you have to pick from? I'm assuming if the community is deciding it would be through plurality and not majority which would almost assuredly leave a majority of people unhappy. Basically Riot would cause needless grief to its players and have to continually hold a vote and redo the system on a regular basis.

Finally in my opinion unless you are High Elo the meta can be extremely flexible, even in ranked. In low elo solo queue if I go bruiser/adc bot im sure we will dominate the lane even though it's not the meta. Ever seen Low Elo players mesh together seamlessly? Neither have I. Even if the adc/bruiser do their own thing for the most part they can still dominate. The bruiser hardly needs any help to kill a squishy early-mid game and all the adc needs to do is not tower dive. It kind of irks me how when things like this are discussed it's automatically assumed that all the players in question are of professional caliber.
Refute my argument? I'm trying to help the ELO system. This isn't an arguement, it's an idea. You can reword your douchy post if you want because I'm not going to bother responding to someone who's trying to turn this into a debate. Instead of mocking and ridiculing us why don't you provide some constructive feeback.

Thanks.

EDIT: And by the way, Why in the world would it be plurality and not the majority. And the meta hasn't changed for almost a year now. When it changes, it's going to be big and everyone will know about it. And I'm not talking about little things like, Pantheon mid or darius support. You choose what LANE you want to play in. And with bot it's either the carry or the support. And I don't play many games where the meta is changed, and I play quite a few ranked games. Especially in low elo.


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