Help with Fizz

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Smittens91

Senior Member

01-01-2013

So I bought Fizz a while ago and I must say I love him. Finally, a squishy, bursty Mage that has escape utilities that can counter LeB*tch fairly well. As much as I like him, I just don't seem to be doing that great with him in ranked. I know not to early pick him, as I did that once and got matched up again a Ryze.. Live and learn. However, even with matchups that don't seem terribly stacked against me (such as against Kat, Cassi, Kart) I end up losing my lane. If I'm very, VERY careful I can keep up in CS but I cant seem to snowball heavily like I can with Fizz in Blind Pick.

For harassing combo's, I will sometimes use the standard W - Q - E - Run away, but usually if I'm not going for the kill I will E - E to land right behind them, then W - Q back through them to get some distance and do equal damage. Am I just being dumb or is there a benefit to this? I see it as a way to do the same skills just in a different order as to minimize return harass, but then again I'm sucking with him in Ranked so I'm all ears to tips against it.

I land my Ult 9/10 times without relying on the slow from E (thank you Ahri for teaching me skill shots XD) and I can get out of a lot of situations with juking around with Q and E. I guess my questions are:
Is Fizz viable in Ranked?
Is he very Matchup Dependent?
What is his optimal combo?
What are some champions he does well against?
Who can he just NOT lane against at all?

If you want, you can LoLKing my runes/masteries (same name as forum name, I use the third set of each for Fizz) but they should be all in order.

Thank you for any help!


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yoshi guy

Senior Member

01-01-2013

I think Fizz is a counter pick. Don't pick him unless you're going against a Mundo or vlad etc.


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Smittens91

Senior Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoshi guy View Post
I think Fizz is a counter pick. Don't pick him unless you're going against a Mundo or vlad etc.
See, I picked him 2 times against Vlad it didn't seem to work too well. My ultimate gets's dodged by the Troll Pool, and because Vlad has the target based lifesteal it doesn't get affected much my my Troll Pole. Also I have to bait the pool before i try to ult or he will just negate it completely, and even if i do that they usually wait for it to be back up before they get too close.


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Lord Puppy Fury

Senior Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittens91 View Post
See, I picked him 2 times against Vlad it didn't seem to work too well. My ultimate gets's dodged by the Troll Pool, and because Vlad has the target based lifesteal it doesn't get affected much my my Troll Pole. Also I have to bait the pool before i try to ult or he will just negate it completely, and even if i do that they usually wait for it to be back up before they get too close.
Uh well yeah...you do have to bait the pool out of Vlad. I mean, that's just kind of a thing you have to do against Vlad. Just because X counters Y doesn't mean you can stand in your lane and instagib your opponent. Just like vs a Cass you have to dodge her poison and versus a Karth you have to time Playful just right to negate his ult. All things equal, a counter will win out, but skill beats counters most days of the week.

To your original post, Fizz is a crummy farmer. Shove your lane, roam, and gank. Especially if you're good with your shark, post-six Fizz's ganks are pretty strong. Just make sure you don't starve your team out of kill gold. Take if from experience, Fizz is scary, but he will have a hard time carrying a team.


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Mattafack

Senior Member

01-01-2013

His counters are anyone with blink abilities or untargetable abilities. Your ult will miss a lot with them. Most everything is fair game for Fizz, unless galio goes mid, which most of the time he will stack MR to resist your harass. Fizz is so powerful it's insane, but like with every other champ, there are counters out there. Ranked is questionable, because people are smart enough to counterpick you, and then focus the **** out of you in team fights and such. He's somewhat viable.

EDIT:

Like Puppy Fury said, he's not that execptional at farming, and will need some kills to snowball. That can bite you in the ass if you're mid isn't dying and constantly staying in lane and will take out your turret if you leave.


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Smittens91

Senior Member

01-02-2013

What ends up happening vs most matchups is they play way too safe, and I end up getting the short end of the stick when it comes to farming until I can instagib caster minions. Also, Fizz has to use his E for doamage whereas Vlad can save his pool for whenever he needs to get away, maybe on the off chance he uses it for the slow.. I just don't see him as a counter to Vlad personally. The healing debuff yes, of course. But as far as laning as a whole, not at all.


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Lord Puppy Fury

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittens91 View Post
What ends up happening vs most matchups is they play way too safe, and I end up getting the short end of the stick when it comes to farming until I can instagib caster minions. Also, Fizz has to use his E for doamage whereas Vlad can save his pool for whenever he needs to get away, maybe on the off chance he uses it for the slow.. I just don't see him as a counter to Vlad personally. The healing debuff yes, of course. But as far as laning as a whole, not at all.
Well yeah, that's how you beat your counters. A smart player will know when they've been countered and play passively in order to avoid getting killed. Since Fizz can't farm well under the enemy tower, a smart player will slurp the lane all the way up his end, last hit, and let the tower zone Fizz for him. If you're unable to bait your lane opponent into overextending and making mistakes then, particularly on an assassin who needs some early kills, you'll need to find other ways to make this happen.

One of Fizz's shortcomings is he has to play fairly aggressively early. If the enemy isn't playing in such a way that rewards this, Fizz is going to have a hard time. While I don't usually place too much weight on Tiers and such, Fizz is Tier 4 for a reason. He just doesn't always fit on a team. He's really good at punishing mistakes, but he's vulnerable to smart counter-play. And, since he's a high burst, single target assassin, if he's not getting kills he'll stagnate. He's a ton of fun and I love him, but I've since switched to more utilitarian mids because he's just not designed to be the backbone of the team.


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FallenDefender

Member

01-02-2013

I'll just answer your Questions: 1) Fizz is viable in ranked. I played fizz to a 75% win rate in Season 2 and he carried me from 1200 elo to 1450 before found out how much fun Morgana is. 2) No, he is not match-up dependent. He is strong against any champion, even his counters. 3) The best combo for harass is to W - Q - auto attack as many times as you safely can - E (to escape if needed, otherwise just walk away). Do not use your E if you don't have to. You need it to escape ganks and it is wasted mana otherwise. The best combo for killing is W - Q - Auto-attack - E (use the E to slow them down) - Auto-attack - R (the slow from E makes this easier to land) - Auto-attack - Q - Auto-attack. 4) He does well against any squishy champions. His W also makes him do well against healing dependent champions such as Mundo or WW. 5) I've noticed I have a very hard time against Long-Range champions with lots of damage such as Xerath or Ziggs (if they are good).


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Fisherman Fizz

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Is Fizz viable in Ranked?

-Yes, if you get good with him you can carry solo queue games very hard with him

Is he very Matchup Dependent?

-He's matchup dependent, but not in the sense that "if you lane against [x] you lose and if you're against [x] you win," but due to how his E works the way you need to play him in every matchup is going to be extremely different.

What is his optimal combo?

-How you use your skills will usually change in response to what the other laner is doing. Unlike many champions there isn't really a "standard" combo that works best. For example, if you play against Zed when you want to combo him, you need to use your E right before your ult does damage to him because otherwise he can ult you and "dodge" your own ult, but by using E he has no target to do this to.

What are some champions he does well against?

-He does best against champions that have low mobility, low harass potential, or are squishy. A good example of someone he does very well against is Twisted Fate.

Who can he just NOT lane against at all?

-Avoid laning against a Pantheon, or, if you ever decide to play him top lane like I do sometimes, Darius. Also something I want to point out specifically is that you are not countered by Ryze as hard as most people think. You stomp him pretty hard in laning phase actually, the trick is to use E to jump to him when he's about to try and get a last hit. He won't be able to snare you until you're already in melee range that way and you'll out trade him, and once you have ult you can push him to his tower, gank side lanes and snowball the rest of your team before he builds up enough items to become a threat.

Also, there's a lot of general information about playing him in mid that isn't very intuitive at all. You'd think by looking at his skillset that he's a great early game champion that falls off but in practice it's the opposite. Your early game is your weakest and most vulnerable stage of the game, you're strongest mid-late game because you have great ganking potential and arguably the best late game scaling of any assassin. In most lanes you'll want to max your E first and focus on farming early on (you need to use E carefully though, otherwise you'll run yourself out of mana quickly), as opposed to getting W first and focusing on trying to kill the other laner. This makes Fizz an extremely good farmer and wave clearer and is a much safer and lower risk way to play him, which is important in ranked/higher skill level games. Once you get to mid-game you'll have a much easier time getting kills. You should also try experimenting with using summoner spells that aren't Flash on him, using barrier or exhaust along with ignite will let you survive some more difficult lanes, and using teleport with ignite in an easier lane will make it really easy to pick up kills/objectives off of other lanes. Your E, Q and ult are so good at engaging or disengaging enemies that flash isn't a mandatory summoner on him. Also try using AP/lvl glyphs and either armor or AP/lvl seals, those tend to work the best on him.


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Smittens91

Senior Member

01-02-2013

I haven't brought anything other than flash on him, but then again I think the last game I played without flash was level 20 or so. I have about 800 normal wins and 250 ranked games, so it's something I rely on.. Though I do understand his escape potential. I usually don't die hard early, so i guess i dont need it too bad. I usually just get underfed.

I'll try just not picking him against Vlad, as him and Kat were the main 2 I felt safe going against. Both of them have much greater effective health than Fizz, so they won't go down quite as fast as most mids (Vlad gets health via Innate, Kat gets dmg reduc from a well timed Shumpo). Plus neither run on mana, so they can outlast me. I can see I might have just made poor picks. I did play against TF once, and did fairly well. However he did get to side lanes much quicker than I did. I should've brought TP but someone claimed lux was going mid, but instead she went support.

I will say Fizz does scale well late game, but only after building dome defenses. Which means he needs enough farm/kills to buy the DCap, LB, and maybe an Abyssal or Rylais before buying a GA or something of the like. He just seems to be either too squishy or worthless damage unless the enemies build health without mr.

What is your purchase order for Fizz in ranked?

@Fallen:
Fizz isn't strong against his counters.. Not saying he will always lose to them, when i say counter i mean having an upper hand. Like Ahri's hand over Xerath due to the difference in mobility. Doesn't mean its unwinnable when you're countered, I've done it before. But Fizz is, by definition, inherently weaker against his counters..