Another useful SS?

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Sageoffire

Senior Member

12-31-2012

there are SOOOOOO many threads about this ... but there is really no reason to add a new spell when they can just FIX flash. they have lowered its range over and over and over, hasnt done anything. they have increased the cooldown over and over and over, again, hasnt fixed anything. they have buffed other spells, and it hasnt done anything, they have added new spells, and it hasnt done anything. they have put in items that significantly buff some spells and it hasnt done anything... NOTHING they have done has stopped the 10 flash meta. and that is because you can use it whenever you want, for whatever you want. there is no reason to not take it.

There are ALOT of good suggestions that Riot has certainly read ... but ... they havent seemed to listen to any of them.

some good ones:
longer flash range for initiating, shorter for escaping
only useable while out of combat
can only flash toward champions *allied or enemy*
can only flash where you have vision

simply nerfing something over and over doesnt fix everything(supports, sustain, assassins, items, irelia). you HAVE to change functionality to fix some things


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Blackfire447

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageoffire View Post
there are SOOOOOO many threads about this ... but there is really no reason to add a new spell when they can just FIX flash. they have lowered its range over and over and over, hasnt done anything. they have increased the cooldown over and over and over, again, hasnt fixed anything. they have buffed other spells, and it hasnt done anything, they have added new spells, and it hasnt done anything. they have put in items that significantly buff some spells and it hasnt done anything... NOTHING they have done has stopped the 10 flash meta. and that is because you can use it whenever you want, for whatever you want. there is no reason to not take it.

There are ALOT of good suggestions that Riot has certainly read ... but ... they havent seemed to listen to any of them.
Indeed there are a lot of threads about it, for good reason.

And you emphasized the fact that it can be used whenever you want, for whatever you wanted, which is why I suggested making an SS that focused on one of the reasons, and is better that flash in that one aspect, thus a group of champs that use flash for that one purpose can now use the new SS instead.


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FeenicksDown

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgan View Post
Then I would go flash/ghostcleanse every game as AD
Actually champs with build in blinks/escapes could just take ghostcleanse while champs who need flash could still take flash


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Häßlich

Senior Member

12-31-2012

I think a 3s invisibility SS would be interesting, and have it reveal if you deal/take damage, or use abilities or other SS. Have true vision (pink wards, Lee's E, Oracles...) still see through it.


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Sageoffire

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfire447 View Post
Indeed there are a lot of threads about it, for good reason.

And you emphasized the fact that it can be used whenever you want, for whatever you wanted, which is why I suggested making an SS that focused on one of the reasons, and is better that flash in that one aspect, thus a group of champs that use flash for that one purpose can now use the new SS instead.
in general, i agree that we need new summoner spells i like the ideas you suggested, but they still have the same problem as flash. How do you allow either initiating OR escaping, but NOT both? In the case of flash, how it is currently, you simply CANT.

Your idea for a mini janna ult allows anyone with a natural gap closer to have an initiate as well as a escape, AND its CC so it also stops channels and disrupts fights, thats pretty freaking powerful. and what if a support takes it? the carry is free to have their offensive flahs or whatever and the support does their job of protecting. what now? nerf its range? increase its cooldown? how do you prevent someone from abusing that?

you pointed out yourself, a spell that makes a slowing field can be used offensively and defensibly. is that a good thing? maybe. Is that brokenly strong in some cases? yes. is it totally useless in other cases? yup. it sounds like another support summoner spell to me though. carry is able to take their flash again letting the support do their job of peeling.

Your ideas are great, but would be used for something COMPLETELY outside of what you intended, and probably makes things even more complicated. as a support player i LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE those ideas for spells. but i can guarantee they could be even more of a problem than flash is. and they dont even fix that one ...

What was the problem with flash again? i totally forgot what i was getting at ...... lol


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Blackfire447

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageoffire View Post
in general, i agree that we need new summoner spells i like the ideas you suggested, but they still have the same problem as flash. How do you allow either initiating OR escaping, but NOT both? In the case of flash, how it is currently, you simply CANT.

Your idea for a mini janna ult allows anyone with a natural gap closer to have an initiate as well as a escape, AND its CC so it also stops channels and disrupts fights, thats pretty freaking powerful. and what if a support takes it? the carry is free to have their offensive flahs or whatever and the support does their job of protecting. what now? nerf its range? increase its cooldown? how do you prevent someone from abusing that?

you pointed out yourself, a spell that makes a slowing field can be used offensively and defensibly. is that a good thing? maybe. Is that brokenly strong in some cases? yes. is it totally useless in other cases? yup. it sounds like another support summoner spell to me though. carry is able to take their flash again letting the support do their job of peeling.

Your ideas are great, but would be used for something COMPLETELY outside of what you intended, and probably makes things even more complicated. as a support player i LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE those ideas for spells. but i can guarantee they could be even more of a problem than flash is. and they dont even fix that one ...

What was the problem with flash again? i totally forgot what i was getting at ...... lol
To me, even if the other options are just as good as flash, it'd be nice to have other SS that did similar functions, but at least diversified the field of SS. It is boring beyond belief to see flash on everyone.

Currently 95% of players run flash, and the only ones that don't are Olaf and Singed since they have CC reduc. Even if the knock back was just a support ability, at least it means 1/5 of the population stops using flash and changes it up just a little.

And you say that the knock back would become support only, but what if the other support took the slowing one, or exhaust? It would pretty much make the little knock back you did pointless because you got slowed yourself and they were able to catch up.


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Guy Deathscare

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Revive


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Sageoffire

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfire447 View Post
To me, even if the other options are just as good as flash, it'd be nice to have other SS that did similar functions, but at least diversified the field of SS. It is boring beyond belief to see flash on everyone.

Currently 95% of players run flash, and the only ones that don't are Olaf and Singed since they have CC reduc. Even if the knock back was just a support ability, at least it means 1/5 of the population stops using flash and changes it up just a little.

And you say that the knock back would become support only, but what if the other support took the slowing one, or exhaust? It would pretty much make the little knock back you did pointless because you got slowed yourself and they were able to catch up.
Like i said, flash is taken 95% of the time because its instant and has no limitation on when you can use it. because of that it just outclasses everything. there is no spell you can add that can compete with that and still be balanced. so the options for flash are, completly remove it (and with it, ruin ALOT of champs that rely on it) or rework it to address the real problem (which Riot hasnt done, they like to mess with the symptoms, not the cause) one of these HAS to happen or new spells that are supposed to diversify things will end up like surge and just sit there being unused.

i never said support only, i said that it would be more useful as a support spell than as an escape for a carry. regardless if it was a must have spell, or if exhaust is better in every scenerio ... if you want "mini janna ult" the carry wouldnt care WHO has the spell, because it does the same thing no matter who has it. the carry would be free to take 2 selfish summoner spells and let the support have the utility spell. This certainly isnt bad, but it doesnt make a carry want to take a utility spell over "flash" they dont need to.

honestly, if i could get away with it, i wouldnt take flash on supports. but nobody likes when i try to go Exhaust/CV or Exhaust/Heal. I would take Exhaust/"mini janna ult" and tell people to F*** off in an instant though


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