Pick Order Rule (Why it doesn't work, and proposed alternative)

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Zykritch

Member

12-31-2012

Can anyone provide a link which verifies that there is a pick order rule? Or is everyone just bull****ting? The usual saying is "It's in the Summoner's Code" .. actually, it isn't. At all.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/articl...Summoners_Code

So, can anyone show me some proof? (This aside, here's my logic on why the said pick order rule does not work).

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1. First picking mid unless you can consistently beat your counters in lane or roam to avoid them is a BAD idea. You try playing ranked with your mid laner first picking Katarina.. See how that works out for you. Obvious reaction by the enemy team? They all pick cc heavy champions (or rather ones that can cancel her ultimate) .. Kassadin, Vayne, Leona, Malphite, and Rammus/Shen as examples within a full team meta.. Meaning your Kat can hardly participate in team fights at all.. and her ult which does more than half of her damage is flat out useless throughout most of the game. So, what happened to your precious AP carry? Oh wait, they not only got counter-picked mid, they got counter-picked bot, top, and jungle. (This is efficient though right guys? <3 Nothing wrong with pick order at all, no.)

2. You get stuck with someone who can't even play mid over someone who can. I've ran into the scenario hundreds of times where we get stuck with a 20% win ratio mid laner over someone with a 70+% win ratio in the lane.. And guess what? They feed like hell.. but they fought tooth and nail for the lane and .. oh, wait.. they had pick order so I guess it's justified. (How is this logical? How is this efficient? How is this fair?)

3. There is no logical reason for pick order outside of having an "order" so people don't fight over roles. It is EXTREMELY inefficient and causes countless fights in team select, which results in people "punishment-trolling" each other in game due to their arguments in team select... Also meaning it directly results in people deliberately, fearlessly, and shamelessly breaking the summoner's code.. and you know what? They get away scotch free because there is no proof of them trolling you in game outside of the chat log.. and if the proof is not chat-log related the only possible evidence is a game recording.. Good luck getting people to send one of those for EVERY game. (As this happens nearly every game.. Oh and have fun judging all those cases too). - You want an order? .. Let people choose roles before they ever even go into team select, so that they can get matched with a proper team.. So everyone knows what they're playing before they even get into the queue. Arguments.. gone. (And of course this can only be an "optional" way of going in queue, as obviously people would have complaints of it enforcing games to be within the meta if it was mandatory).

4. It is ANYTHING but "humble" .. or "civil" (quotes from the Summoner's Code) to sit and watch your teammates in team select go through calling "mid", "top", "jungle" and "adc" .. and then for you to sit there saying not a word the entire process until it comes down to your pick in select.. and you just pick a top, mid, jungle or adc laner.. completely, deliberately, rudely, and selfishly ignoring the fact that your teammates called it. (Yeah, I'd like to see someone with the gall to do this to someone in a RL situation.. They wouldn't even have the guts, because NOBODY likes an *******.. (For lack of a better word, that is a 100% accurate description of anyone who does this). It is beyond rude to just completely ignore what someone else called and take their lane for a said illogical pick order rule. Name one way at all in how this method is superior to that of the one in which was just proposed?

5. The fact of it is.. this method is NOT working sufficiently, it is causing unnecessary losses, unnecessary fighting, unnecessary trolling, unnecessary breaking of the Summoner's Code, unnecessary frustration, and unnecessary stress. (Get the point yet?) .. It's completely inaccurate and wrong to sit here and state that everything in League is perfect and flawless.. least of all the "pick order" rule. Riot asks for feedback because they want to IMPROVE league.. not so you can all sit here and suck up on the forums drooling "zomg riot be perfectz <3.. to hell with all you h8rz" .. That is not helpful, that is not beneficial.. and it is most certainly not the reason for why we have these forums. The pick order method is not efficient.. And anyone in denial of that can feel free to argue with the countless cases of trolling, verbal abuse, fighting and arguing caused by it -in- team select and out.

Edit: I realize this would cause an abnormally high amount of demand for a specific role in the case of a new champion release.. that would be why this queue-ing method would NOT be mandatory.. There would be another game type (the current game type) with pick order or any other method for those who would wish to queue that way.. Because naturally the queues would have been longer for top lane and jungle on say a Vi champion release than it would be on any other day.


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Røhø

Junior Member

12-31-2012

I proposed this idea, and am glad others are supporting it.
But one more aspect and source of in game anger and fighting between teammates is someone forced into the support role that picks apc or an adc then goes and takes all the cs. When you called the role, picked the adc (let's say vayne) and they pick (say Zyra)... you shoot once, twice, and about to hit the third for the cs kill and Zyra last hits you every shot.

Are you going to get angry... you bet, are you going to start saying stuff in chat, yup. And then Zyra the troll reports you. Is that working Riot?
(There needs to be a special report for players that do this, especially if they're reporting you because those who judge in the tribunal need to take into account what was actually going on. Sure your farm was low and you were under-leveled because of it, you couldn't buy items and then end up feeding... while Zyra looks great, you look unskilled or worse are accused of feeding. Often the troll will point you out and tell the team to report you. The tribunal has no clue what really happened).

Second aspect, is that mates often argue about position down to the wire. When they do pick the team comp is often messed up for above reason or that someone auto-locks a position forcing you to pick a champion you're not good with.

Third, I've seen multiple times where someone wants to mid, another calls the role and so they respect that then go and play their mid as support. They don't get feed, they can't heal or shield or lack cc. So the adc often gets owned because they don't have proper support and this "so called support" isn't fed so you have two on your team under-leveled and virtually useless that often feed the enemy apc and support leading to a quick victory for the enemy team.

Again key to making this all work is pick order prior to team unification.
But to make it work in spectacular fashion you show the wait times for the various roles before they pick. Result, apc (146 secs) adc (125 secs) support (8 seconds) will be that more will choose support roles for the shorter wait time.

Now what happens when you're all Queued up in roles and someone picks an adc for support. Well it might not be a problem, some players can pull this off and shouldn't be reported just for playing out of meta. However, if they are deemed by their team to be the cause of failure then it should be reported and the player should be warned of their behavior.

Also suppose the player is warned, but they want to negate that warning showing proof that they just had a bad game and that in 7 of 10 games they actually excel with that character in that role. I haven't seen the ability to stop the punishments of tribunal because it's presumed guilty until proven innocent and the accused has no representation not even themselves.

P.S. Know why pros don't need pick order... because they already know their assigned roles. Shouldn't we all?


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Atyrin

Junior Member

01-12-2013

"Let people choose roles before they ever even go into team select."

It would be nice to have the option, even if I have to wait a whole FIVE(tiny)MINUTES, if I really want to be (->This!<-) I can be.

Saves grief and calling, with the who-can-type-the-fastest contest, out of the way, we can get onto playing the game.



--
p.s. "zomg riot be perfectz <3"

...then why do they ask for feedback..? xP


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Aeonova

Junior Member

01-13-2013

This is a great idea, however a Vote-Kick option should also be available to kick trolls during champion select.


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FirstChoice

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Senior Member

01-14-2013

I think you're not understanding what pick order is. They get to pick...in order. Strangers don't trust each other, and so everyone is an individual, not a team. They are allowed to pick whatever they want to pick because they have the priority and higher elo. This isn't practical competitively, but nobody plays with strangers in competitive.


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FirstChoice

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Senior Member

01-14-2013

Yeah, I read the summoners code just now and I think you can't read. It's literally in the second paragraph about picks....


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Zykritch

Member

01-14-2013

-I'm not making a play on words here, at all.. But this:

"Being a good team player begins at champion select. Be open minded when considering the needs of your team. If you’re the last one to pick, try to fill a niche in your team that hasn’t already been filled"

Doesn't mean: "You -must- follow pick order otherwise it's a bannable offense. To agree to the summoner's code is to agree to follow pick order without exception."

It means: "It's nice and considerate to fill a niche in your team that has not been filled already.. And you should do so.." (You do NOT have to. If Riot intended for it to mean you -have- to they would have said so.. I'm sure they know English well enough to be more specific than vague when outlining a rule if they wish to. People have twisted the meaning, that's all it is.)

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The difference? One is a suggestion.. one is a twisting of that suggestion, trying to turn it into a non-existant rule that better suits those who agree with it. And for the record, people do play with strangers competitively.. Until you're 2k+ elo you're getting matched with and against randoms in ranked.

I know exactly what pick order is.. And I know that it doesn't work. Would you disagree with me on that? Would you deny the fact that it's probably doubled the amount of tribunal cases there would be without it? How many games do people troll -because- of the fights in team select? Whether you want to take a twisted interpretation of the summoner's code and make a rule out of it or not.. Pick order doesn't work, at all. In the 2k elo people hardly follow pick order.. it's a very small ranged elo and everyone knows people and the roles they play by name.. So they just compromise amongst themselves... -That- isn't going to happen in your 500-1500 elo every game. So please, by all means.. propose a logical argument to me in defense of the pick order, and how flawless and efficient it is. I would be happy to see what you have to say.


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Sansejin

Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstChoice View Post
Yeah, I read the summoners code just now and I think you can't read. It's literally in the second paragraph about picks....
Failure to understand and complete misrepresentation of the summoners code, entirely too common.


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Zykritch

Member

01-16-2013

You know, instead of mindlessly and rather unsuccessfully making logical attacks on my opening statement, as you apparently are the one here who cannot read nor interpret English correctly.. Maybe you should do something worthwhile? Aka.. something other than attacking the introduction to the post.. and giving feedback/input about the point of the post that is actually useful?.. If you are not here to add suggestions to the alternative, propose a new one.. or explain to me why I am wrong about pick order being a complete and utter failure.. I'll ask you this.. Why are you here?


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Røhø

Junior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansejin View Post
Failure to understand and complete misrepresentation of the summoners code, entirely too common.
Shut up troll.