Revive: turning bad plays into undeserved wins since 2011

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bierfaust

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
I have, on multiple occasions, killed my lane opponent, have them revive, only to kill them again without having to back myself. The counter to revive is literally to just kill them again.

Also, This
So have I, everybody has at 1 stage or another that isn't the issue. The issue is revive blocks the natural flow of the game and diminishes or removes rewards for good strategy, and skill in out playing your opponent. Plus you opponent could revive and just sit on the tower to buy time. They aren't forced to engage you.

You kill your opponent and push on his tower, if his allies don't recall and stop you, you get the tower.

That's fine, when the game is 400-400 he can let that slide and just take the tower back, plenty of time up his sleeve. Bit of a different story when the game is 30-15. Your team is just barely behind, you pull off a great play, kill your opponent, push on his tower, oh look his team can sit fine top because he just revived and prevented you from being rewarded for out playing him. Not only that, his team now get to remain on top because none of them had to recall in an effort to save their bot tower from you, which would let the rest of your team contest and most likely take top.

So revive just prevented you from taking either top or bot/mid and by this time the score is most likely 20-5 and it's game over for you.

In what messed up world is it fair that a simple button push completely undoes your hard work?, especially if you just barely managed to beat him or worse yet he made a mistake which caused him to lose and he can simply ignore that fact because of revive.

You can argue that "oh well we can just make him blow his revive early". That's **** because as the game progresses and especially if the teams are very even, any idiot would keep revive free for that exact situation, even if he loses the tower briefly at some other point in the game, it's easy to get your own bot tower back when you have a cushion of 50-100 points or more.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Because cleanse can totally win games by using it when you just got killed and you were the only one that could stop that tower cap that would turn the game around. Oh wait no, revive is the spell that lets you counter strategy and good play of another team by using 1 spell.
Cleanse can totally win a game when your derpy Fiora charges into a 1 vs 3, get's CC'd for what should be a game ending kill, goes "lol" cleanses and fires her ult.

Quote:
Bit of a different story when the game is 30-15. Your team is just barely behind, you pull off a great play, kill your opponent, push on his tower, oh look his team can sit fine top because he just revived and prevented you from being rewarded for out playing him. Not only that, his team now get to remain on top because none of them had to recall in an effort to save their bot tower from you, which would let the rest of your team contest and most likely take top.
Sigh. Burn his revive with ganks and this won't happen. What you need to accept is that if your enemy has a revive up and it's 30-15 on clock with you being one point down, you have already been outplayed, whenever by them being derpy lucky or managing their ganks/revives better in the grand scheme of the game.

There is literally zero difference between him annulling your precious great play with revive or any other summoner.

Quote:
You can argue that "oh well we can just make him blow his revive early". That's **** because as the game progresses and especially if the teams are very even, any idiot would keep revive free for that exact situation, even if he loses the tower briefly at some other point in the game, it's easy to get your own bot tower back when you have a cushion of 50-100 points or more.
No. Because if any idiot would lose the tower earlier to a well executed gank, and if he doesn't use revive and retake the tower, he could be looking at losing 50-100 points or more when there are 100 points left on the clock. Revives isn't a "400-400 point" or "25-25" linear affair. Losing bot lane to a gank when you are already against a team that holds 3 points can lead to a game snowballing hundreds of points.

"Any idiot keeps bot lane revive for last second big play scenario" is quite literally an idiot because he might actually lose the game for his team in a vague hope of a clutch win the last second by not using his revive when he actually has to.


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Panzerzs

Senior Member

01-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
Sigh. Burn his revive with ganks and this won't happen. What you need to accept is that if your enemy has a revive up and it's 30-15 on clock with you being one point down, you have already been outplayed, whenever by them being derpy lucky or managing their ganks/revives better in the grand scheme of the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bierfaust View Post
That's fine, when the game is 400-400 he can let that slide and just take the tower back, plenty of time up his sleeve. Bit of a different story when the game is 30-15. Your team is just barely behind, you pull off a great play, kill your opponent, push on his tower, oh look his team can sit fine top because he just revived and prevented you from being rewarded for out playing him.
-Yeah, what Konf says is IMO, true, if games get that close and if you really think about it... You've been giving up points for prob the last 12minutes (around there if the caps are 3 to 2)
In addition, yesterday, we took out 3 enemies for the price of 0 top when we had 10 points left to their 20, and 2 of them revived wiping us all out. As frustrating as this situation can be, I look back at what my team and I did, and it seems like we've been getting outplayed for the majority of the game.

-At this point, Revive is of little blame since you can only use it maybe.. 4 times in a normal game (excluding 1 revive since most of the time, it is used windmill if the teams are evenly matched early)
-Although I do agree Revive punishes bad play, but getting your nexus points to like 20-30 means that they've been either outplaying you constantly, or you've made too many mistakes whether it's your teammates dying uselessly, or you diving in at wrong times and dying uselessly etc. (My mistakes are: miscommunication and just team comp getting counter picked in blind pick.)
-In my experience, Revive only punished my team and I if we make good plays very late in the game which is kinda redundant now since the enemy most likely has revive kept for the last minutes of the game if they're smart or haven't died much (Sometimes we pull off the holy plays where we kill the enemy once, they revive, and we kill em again w/o recalling, but it's highly unlikely late game because all champions get really tanky and the sustain is needed)

Tip - IF you really want to know what makes games end with 200-0 or 150-0 in points, it's a matter of using the jungle or invading them b4 the enemy walks back to windmill. (With teemo shrooms, it's a different story and I won't give tips on how to counter it because you'd probably make up an excuse to prove what I said is wrong -.-)
-Other times, team comps just outplay each other and another team will not be able to recap top point ever again
-Other times are that if you access the situation and find out that 1 enemy is camping the windmill brush, just gank their jungle on a 4 v 3....
-Or gank bot so the activity that's going on is a 5 v 4 while the top enemy is just waiting on their point for no reason.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

01-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by bierfaust View Post
In what messed up world is it fair that a simple button push completely undoes your hard work?, especially if you just barely managed to beat him or worse yet he made a mistake which caused him to lose and he can simply ignore that fact because of revive.
.
Lets say i get a great gank set up. Enemy bot laner sees it coming, but we pin him down with 2 ults and a Garrison. Then suddenly, he flashes and runs back to his base. Then he uses his MS steroid and stops us capping, and we don't get the point.

In what messed up world is it fair that a simple button push completely undoes your hard work? Especially if you would have just barely managed to kill him or worse yet he made a mistake which would have caused him to lose and he can simply ignore that fact because of flash.


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SuperQuackDuck

Senior Member

01-05-2013

His flash and revive were both up for your gank and yet you blew 2 ults and a garr to kill him? Seriously?


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Orphane

Senior Member

01-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperQuackDuck View Post
His flash and revive were both up for your gank and yet you blew 2 ults and a garr to kill him? Seriously?
In this case RCIX was just commenting on how a couple of other summoner spells or even just player abilities can "invalidate" gank attempts just like revive can (even though a gank in which the enemy bot laner has to use revive is still a success).