Revive: turning bad plays into undeserved wins since 2011

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Malah

Senior Member

01-02-2013

And FDru sticks his foot in his mouth again. This is becoming derpressingly common.

Derp.

Anywho, Revive's got a ten minute cooldown and it's equally awesome for both sides. If you manage to decisively win a fight enough to get the cap off, you shouldn't be in so terrible a position that you can get derpdived assuming your comp isn't garbage and has some way to poke/clear minions reasonably fast. If nothing else, your side has revive as well. If reviving after a decisive ace is the way to win, then your team should be able to pull off the same thing if you get slaughtered by the rebound.

"Underdeserved wins"? BS.


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FDru

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malah View Post
And FDru sticks his foot in his mouth again.
When? And when was the last time cause I don't remember.

I'm still right and it's not my problem that nobody else understands (or is willing to admit) the problem. Actually, bierfaust(sp?) does, so just read his posts. I normally disagree with him but he actually "gets it" when it comes to Revive, and he has explained the problem better than I could.


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Catnium

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Senior Member

01-03-2013

my solution to all this would be to make dominion the only game mode with 3 sum spell slots of wich one is already pre determined by being revive

so now everyone has revive and can still take their sr spell combo's and quit complaining about how op revive is


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Yokel85

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Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnium View Post
my solution to all this would be to make dominion the only game mode with 3 sum spell slots of wich one is already pre determined by being revive

so now everyone has revive and can still take their sr spell combo's and quit complaining about how op revive is
The OP isn't really complaining about how op revive is. He's complaining that it is counterintuitive in that bad plays where your team gets aced can actually be good plays under certain circumstances, when everyone has revive. I don't see how your solution would fix that.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnium View Post
my solution to all this would be to make dominion the only game mode with 3 sum spell slots of wich one is already pre determined by being revive

so now everyone has revive and can still take their sr spell combo's and quit complaining about how op revive is
So, your solution is to give everyone Revive, Garrison, and Exhaust/Ignite?

Interesting, but ultimately just another band-aid to the real issue: All summoner spells are balanced for SR, and need to be balanced and/or recreated for Dominion.


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Golly

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Finally, someone says it. I kept thinking I was the lone nut in dominatedominion chat who got shouted down every time I criticized Revive.

No other summoner is as big of a crutch as Revive. It's not about people using it to complement their character or build, it's the degree in which Revive is used.

Not saying it should be removed, but it should be nerfed in some measurable way.


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2012Skeptic

Junior Member

01-03-2013

Honestly, we need a separate summoner skill set for dominion. Nerfing any spell would throw of the balance in Summoner's Rift. A separate skill set would ensure that it is balanced for dominion and not affect Summoners Rift. Some spells, like Ignite could be included in the new skill set. I think Riot should expand upon the idea of garrison and give dominion its own summoner spells.


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Chavez Obama

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Writing from a mobile, so pardon any Engrish

There's many problems (IMO) at work here, revive us an example. It is a game defining spell, I think most players would say moreso than either exhaust or ignite or garrison or others. But is this a bad thing? I think in this case yes, but not because of its power.

In summoners rift, revive is never taken (outside of builds such as revive tele Karth). This is because laning phase. So stronger summoners in drawn out laning are needed (flash especially). The summoner spells are balanced around sr (as others have pointed out).

Revive doesn't seem worth it, the pro team probably don't want to Risk giving up so much laning power for revive. Maybe some team will perfect how to use it.

It's not all bad for now , but for the game mode to become competitive the summoner spells will need to be worked around. Simply axe revive and you will just have more exhausts and garrisons. That's not too unlike sr (4-5 flash per team) But. Sr is balanced for flash. Dominion is balanced for ♨. The game isn't reliant on revive for balance, unlike how in sr, if flash were removed, balance would change. I guess that's a good thing about not having had dominion balanced constantly. We have more potential changing.

I just don't feel revive would have a place in the game mode if it were to become largely competitive. Some is opinion but the design just seems off. I mean we could have to play a mini stepmania game every time you revive, that would take more mechanical skill , but it just doesn't fit. A strange example but just because something takes some skill doesn't mean it is good. The designers didn't play dominion and go " you know what summoner spell would go really well here? Revive!" No, it was an artifact from sr which happened to work very well.


Overall, revive probably isn't good for long term health of mode. But lots of other things aren't either. Just getting rid of revive may cause unforeseen consequences.


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Slev

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Revive is a crutch yes, but both teams have access to it. It's like in SR how basically every champ carries flash. Revive is dominion's flash. I for one like it as a mechanic for dom because level 3/4 fights are very often less about skill and more about what champions are on each side. Revive helps equalize the early game rock/paper/scissors and keep an even pace to the more strategy oriented mid-game.


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bierfaust

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slev View Post
Revive is a crutch yes, but both teams have access to it. It's like in SR how basically every champ carries flash. Revive is dominion's flash. I for one like it as a mechanic for dom because level 3/4 fights are very often less about skill and more about what champions are on each side. Revive helps equalize the early game rock/paper/scissors and keep an even pace to the more strategy oriented mid-game.
Just because every player has access to it doesn't mean it's not bad for the game.

The DOM aura was changed and the passive ArPen and MPen were removed.

By the logic of every person that says "but everyone has access to it, it's fair" the DOM aura should be reverted and was fine because "everyone had access to it".

That alone proves that just because something is available, doesn't mean it's good for the health of the game mode as a whole. I really don't know why people can't see that. Probably blinded by the false sense of skill/satisfaction revive provides them by allowing them to mitigate a consequence that was intended to have an impact on the game.

That would be death btw, it was put in the game for a reason.