What Makes a Jungler a Jungler to Riot?

First Riot Post
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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CertainlyT View Post
I will get rid of them. It takes time to test changes and to assess what needs to be done to compensate for them. They also weren't possible prior to Season 3 when armor was ridiculously undercosted relative to its power.

It's worth noting that we have a lot of lane bullies, of which Darius is only one. If you straight nerf Darius, then people who want the lane bully experience will just play Garen or Renekton, champions that *actually* counters all other melee champions (Darius does not... a lot of melee champions have decent matchups against him).
darius is a lane bully, who can carry through mid and lategame. it means he has a high chance of winning his lane and using this momentum in later stages of the game.

garen cant carry for **** against a half decent team, no matter how good of a laner he is, due to the weaknesses of his kit. (and your team made shure, that hes much less powerful in lane than he used to be). and renektons damage still falls off hard.


the champions that would really see more play as lane bullies would probably be pantheon, xin or olaf and not garen or renekton.


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Atyres

Senior Member

01-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CertainlyT View Post
I will get rid of them. It takes time to test changes and to assess what needs to be done to compensate for them. They also weren't possible prior to Season 3 when armor was ridiculously undercosted relative to its power.

It's worth noting that we have a lot of lane bullies, of which Darius is only one. If you straight nerf Darius, then people who want the lane bully experience will just play Garen or Renekton, champions that *actually* counters all other melee champions (Darius does not... a lot of melee champions have decent matchups against him).
Wait, you earlier admitted that Darius was balanced, but your just gonna get rid of parts of his kit? Why are we removing the slow, and not the slow from Lee Sin (who btw has an aoe version, doesn't use mana and is in my opinion a much bigger problem than Darius has ever been)


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CooLTanG

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Master Recruiter

01-01-2013

Attack speed slow skills in general are really strong right now. It shouldn't reduce their total attack speed, just the bonus imo.


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TauManifesto

Senior Member

01-01-2013

I can't believe I read through like 4-5 pages of people complaining about Darius. I love him because he's f***ing manly. There are not enough manly champions in League. We have Darius, Taric, Draven and Jarvan. Not too many considering there are 109 champions. There are too many females and about 90% have some sort of ***-appeal. Leona and a few others don't have that *** appeal. That's off track because I want to talk about the jungle.

I feel like the jungle was created not for ganking but to take advantage of the gold and exp that are still on the map. I feel like gold and exp are the most valuable resources in the game along with buffs. A jungler will help you control all that free gold exp and buff. Not for gank or pressure but simply utilizing the map to it's fullest. I've played games as a jungler against teams without one. I had free reign over buffs and all camps allowing me to have farm like a solo laner while ganking other lanes. Just my opinion on people who think junglers are only meant to gank. Then why not just have a roaming laner with Exhaust Ignite to roam and gank lanes and duo lane for farm. Yeah that sounds stupid but that's what basically what it is if you think jungling was created for pure ganks.

Slightly off track off jungle I want to talk about Shyvana. Yeah she's still very strong in the jungle and can duel well but the question is always why take her when there is Dr.Mundo. I don't think in a game with 109 champions that people should ever say "Why take X when there is Y who does everything better." I don't think it's fair for the X champions because they get out classed. Shyvana has some advantages but Mundo's seem to outweigh them like how he's tankier late game, has CC poke, and does a lot more damage. Shyvana's only advantage is a healthier first clear and possibly dueling. I think after a first few clears Mundo is a bigger threat. Shyvana needs some serious buffs because there is no point taking her when there is Mundo around. Give Shyvana that one special edge that all junglers seem to have. Nautilus for his CC, Seji for her ult/soft CC, Amumu for his ult, Malphite for his initiation, Lee Sin for his insane ganking and utility, Nocturne and his psuedo global ult, and many others who have certain skill sets that would favor them over another. Like Sejuani can be picked over Amumu if the enemy teams doesn't like getting slowed because although Amumu's ult is larger, Sej can consistently slow down people. I can think of a lot of examples but I think everyone gets the picture.


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VexingRaven

Senior Member

01-01-2013

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Originally Posted by CertainlyT View Post
And yet both are completely viable in lane. The OP seems to be suggesting that a champion "for the jungle" is one that cannot be played effectively outside of the jungle.
No, the OP is suggesting that a champion designed for the jungle should.. You know, be designed for the jungle. They should have a clear reason why they're junglers, not "Because riot says so", and they should be most effective in the jungle, not top or mid. Not that they shouldn't be able to, but the jungle should be their home, the place they are most comfortable, the place they do the best.


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Apollinarius

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The SHP View Post
Just wanted to say, since I've seen a few posts saying Leona can't jungle (and i know i'm gonna get flak for this):

Leona can jungle. It's actually pretty reasonable. I've been able to work out a 3:57 to lvl 4, solo, with about 450 health remaining upon hitting 4. The only time it's particularly 'slow' is at level 1... but then again, with a leash, you don't have to worry about that. After that, it's pretty smooth sailing, at a pretty good pace.


most of the details are posted at some point in this thread: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2955038
When she hits 4800 IP once the champion after Thresh is released, I will give jungle Leona a try. I like Leona's kit, but don't want to play her as a support. She feels perfect for the jungle from the gank perspective. Her clear time is the only possible weak spot, but with Machete, everyone seems to clear the jungle like it's easymode. Even Ali (whom Riot said they want to prevent from being able to jungle in S3) has great clear times.


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jmlinden7

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskyraider View Post
...Cus it's not like he gets free % Armor Pen in his kit or anything...Or that over half his damage is True Damage...Wtf...
% armor pen and true damage don't actually help you kill squishies that well, it's why Draven can out-duel Vayne if Vayne doesn't get the stun off.