DoTA and LoL

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SummerDaze

Senior Member

01-02-2013

Never hit 600-700 ms on Master Yi that would only be possible if you got all PD and even then its a ridiculous number. That MS statement is stupidly biased as they make no difference to me in the end. The speed in the games are different because champion skillsets are different.


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Crazyflames

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Senior Member

01-02-2013

I personally like the DOTA heroes better than the LoL champions. But I like pretty much everything else better in LoL. I like to play both, its fun to play as a blitzcrank that can grab you from half way across the map and then eat somebody. I haven't played for a while though, is techies out yet for DOTA 2?


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wwong3

Member

01-03-2013

That statement was in response to scaling, and how in DotA kills are for shutting down people while LoL it's for snowballing. The original statement about the larger map had to do with ganking takes up more resources WHILE it has less personal rewards in terms of gold gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durzaka View Post
Are these default no item champion times? skill speed boost times? Specify, since youre gonna throw out numbers like 600-700 ms at the end which is really ridiculous to get in a game.

2 seconds to middle lane difference. That is negligible early game, you wouldnt even miss a CS in this case. 8 second difference for side lanes. More of a big deal, but again, almost NOTHING in the grand scheme of things.

Im not sure what that fourth measurement was, you worded it odd. Im gonna assume that it is running along the river? Whatever it is, the time difference is nonexistent.

Not to mention A LOT of champions in Dota 2 have more mobility than LoL champions. There is even a champion with a global teleport on a 30 second CD that costs 50 mana. Map size isnt much larger when you look at everything offered.
The hero you're referring to has these abilities.

1. a breakable bind. anyone can break it. (160 mana to cast)
2. teleport (50mana), cooldown is 50,40,30,20s
3. summon minions weaker than basecreeps that give bounty. (160 mana)
4. deal 250 damage to all enemies, evaporating farm, and pushing lanes. (varies in mana)

The hero starts with 270 mana and is a spell caster hero so he has no damage, attackspeed, or hp. Also has below avg movespeed.

I don't see how he's gona scale that hard from the gold gained in ganking. :|
Also I guess he can ignore all farm and mana restrictions to continuously gank... since he gets 200~250 gold for it while a single creep gives 40~50 gold. You're right though. It totally makes no difference that this monster with mobility can't fight anyone on even terms. =.=;

Mana potions of 100mana only costs 50g each. Costs roughly 200 mana from the Teleport + bind abilities. These abilities do no damage whatsoever, nor do they stun. Be prepared for a struggle.
HP Potions cost 100g each! Loss of hp? No problem!
Let's make each gank even less rewarding! So the total cost of the gank is 200g! + farming time + exp time. The reward is, a split of the exp! + 200 gold IF you get the kill! If you don't, you LOSE gold! YAY! \o/
Don't forget, you may even die in the fight! ^_~

yea... I don't think so.


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Durzaka

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwong3 View Post
That statement was in response to scaling, and how in DotA kills are for shutting down people while LoL it's for snowballing. The original statement about the larger map had to do with ganking takes up more resources WHILE it has less personal rewards in terms of gold gain.



The hero you're referring to has these abilities.

1. a breakable bind. anyone can break it. (160 mana to cast)
2. teleport (50mana), cooldown is 50,40,30,20s
3. summon minions weaker than basecreeps that give bounty. (160 mana)
4. deal 250 damage to all enemies, evaporating farm, and pushing lanes. (varies in mana)

The hero starts with 270 mana and is a spell caster hero so he has no damage, attackspeed, or hp. Also has below avg movespeed.

I don't see how he's gona scale that hard from the gold gained in ganking. :|
Also I guess he can ignore all farm and mana restrictions to continuously gank... since he gets 200~250 gold for it while a single creep gives 40~50 gold. You're right though. It totally makes no difference that this monster with mobility can't fight anyone on even terms. =.=;

Mana potions of 100mana only costs 50g each. Costs roughly 200 mana from the Teleport + bind abilities. These abilities do no damage whatsoever, nor do they stun. Be prepared for a struggle.
HP Potions cost 100g each! Loss of hp? No problem!
Let's make each gank even less rewarding! So the total cost of the gank is 200g! + farming time + exp time. The reward is, a split of the exp! + 200 gold IF you get the kill! If you don't, you LOSE gold! YAY! \o/
Don't forget, you may even die in the fight! ^_~

yea... I don't think so.
I wasnt referring to his ganking potential. he is by and far, a split pushing champion not a gank champion. leave him alone for 2 minutes and he drop your base turrets. (he also has a fairly fast attack speed compared to most casters)

I was simply using him as an example that mobility is higher in Dota 2. There are also champions that can sprint ghost across the entire map and get to the other side in no time (spirit breaker), and another champion that, at max level, as a stealth move that gives him like 50% move speed boost for 30+ seconds.

Again, you took what i was saying out of context, i was talking to the guy saying the map was bigger and that being bigger changed things in comparisons between the game.


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Neozeromus

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Junior Member

01-03-2013

Dota 2 excels where LoL fails, balance and hero design


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Durzaka

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neozeromus View Post
Dota 2 excels where LoL fails, balance and hero design


Wait what? Dota 2 balance is horrendous. I would be hard pressed to find a more imbalanced game.

But it does have the most excellent hero design ive ever seen. Every hero is so much fun to play.


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IS1d69e2e5726f5f

Member

01-03-2013

i need some good porn recommendation

I really like some of Janna Jameson's old stuff, like flashpoint


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ChoppazAndDakka

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durzaka View Post
Wait what? Dota 2 balance is horrendous. I would be hard pressed to find a more imbalanced game.

But it does have the most excellent hero design ive ever seen. Every hero is so much fun to play.
Pray tell, who is imbalanced? While there are a core group of heroes that pros prefer, this often fluctuates as the meta shifts every few months (Nerubian Assassin becoming a top pick/ban for example), there are no heroes who absolutely break the game. Everything can be countered and countered hard. Don't mistake low level pubs not playing right for bad balance. Ursa and Phantom Assassin might be tearing up your games but they are far from ideal picks once the enemy knows how to pick and play.


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Durzaka

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoppazAndDakka View Post
Pray tell, who is imbalanced? While there are a core group of heroes that pros prefer, this often fluctuates as the meta shifts every few months (Nerubian Assassin becoming a top pick/ban for example), there are no heroes who absolutely break the game. Everything can be countered and countered hard. Don't mistake low level pubs not playing right for bad balance. Ursa and Phantom Assassin might be tearing up your games but they are far from ideal picks once the enemy knows how to pick and play.

The way how fast champions can get a lead with one death, how effective you can shut someone down after a small lead, and numerous champion kits are imbalanced.

I dont know enough names or skill names to start pointing fingers, but compared to LoL Dota 2 is very much imbalanced.

Also, being able to counter something, does not make it unbalanced. There are several situations like that in LoL and that doesnt make it ok.


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Fox P McCloud

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Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durzaka View Post
Are these default no item champion times? skill speed boost times? Specify, since youre gonna throw out numbers like 600-700 ms at the end which is really ridiculous to get in a game.

2 seconds to middle lane difference. That is negligible early game, you wouldnt even miss a CS in this case. 8 second difference for side lanes. More of a big deal, but again, almost NOTHING in the grand scheme of things.

Im not sure what that fourth measurement was, you worded it odd. Im gonna assume that it is running along the river? Whatever it is, the time difference is nonexistent.

Not to mention A LOT of champions in Dota 2 have more mobility than LoL champions. There is even a champion with a global teleport on a 30 second CD that costs 50 mana. Map size isnt much larger when you look at everything offered.
The thing you're forgetting is that yes it's only an "X" second difference, but everything adds up--the map still is larger---and you have other things that complicate this even further (more difficult to navigate terrain, turning speed, no innate back feature, and a hard cap on movement speed).

There's definitely a few things that make it seem smaller (TP scrolls mostly), but in general going from point A to point B takes a lot longer in DotA if it involves traveling in the jungle.

Yeah, I figured the wording on the middle was odd--basically it means ruing straight down the middle of the river from one side of the map to the other.




Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerDaze View Post
Never hit 600-700 ms on Master Yi that would only be possible if you got all PD and even then its a ridiculous number. That MS statement is stupidly biased as they make no difference to me in the end. The speed in the games are different because champion skillsets are different.
It's that difficult---pop his ult and ghost with a single PD and mobility boots and you've hit that. Yes, it's temporary, but my point was that overall movement speed is definitely higher in LoL than in DotA.

For example, if you play Luna and stack every single movement speed item on her in the game, have centaur use his ult (max MS for X seconds for everyone), pop drums of endurance (think shurelia's), have a haste rune, etc---your MS is still ultimately capped and limited to 522.