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Should Riven be nerfed?

Yes, Riven should be nerfed 161 33.06%
No, Riven should not be nerfed 326 66.94%
Voters 487 .

Riven Nerf in the next Patch

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Empyrius

Senior Member

01-05-2013

Honestly i do agree with you you about the ult cd. Most of Riven's early game strength comes from the fact that her ult is up and ready to use almost every time she gets back in lane. Nerfing Ultimate cd at lvl 6 should help prevent massive snowballing in itself. Makes people more smart about when they cast it. However this HP/5 nerf will destroy her top and jungle lanes. Making her useless overall. Yes shield is supposed to absorb that extra damage, but alot of times people do more damage than the shield and it makes it pointless.

If someone did 90 damage, and old shield blocks 70 and new shield blocks 80. then old you would have 20 more damage than what they are intending now which is 10. however in 10 seconds you would have regained all that HP back. In jungle its sustained damage so having a shield is pointless there. All i want to point out is that your nerfing her to lower lvls than some mid champions and taking away a lane choice if you do this nerf.


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MuerteSigilosa

Recruiter

01-06-2013

The E buff, you can do it, but increase ult cd and decrease hp5 is a big mistake


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DoubleLane

Senior Member

01-06-2013

this is not a nerf.... it's barely worth mentioning hp regen who gives a **** about base hp regen honestly when is 5 going to make a difference, everybody just chugs hp pots and flasks now days anyways... as for her ult good she doesn't need to have it up every fight course oh wait she will still have it every fight casue it only went up by 5 seconds at end lvl which isnt worth mentioning and a bit at lvl 1 who cares by the time u get back into lane from backing or dieing from the fight w.e that difference will be gone... and then the shield is a buff not a nerf


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Samwel93

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
this is not a nerf.... it's barely worth mentioning hp regen who gives a **** about base hp regen honestly when is 5 going to make a difference, everybody just chugs hp pots and flasks now days anyways... as for her ult good she doesn't need to have it up every fight course oh wait she will still have it every fight casue it only went up by 5 seconds at end lvl which isnt worth mentioning and a bit at lvl 1 who cares by the time u get back into lane from backing or dieing from the fight w.e that difference will be gone... and then the shield is a buff not a nerf


Good job trolling or showing a complete lack of understand of Riven as a character. Hp5 is the only reason Riven can lane against someone like say Jayce or Teemo and the only way she can ever trade with someone like Darius or Olaf(although she often loses the trade if the other person is smart). Nobody cares about the max rank ult cd because Riven is one of the weakest late game tops out there, the only way to have presence late in the game is too either be fed or completely outplay the other team. Shield buff is fine, but it doesn't make up for the nerfs especially since Riot's logic was to make trading with the shield up more important even though it was already something that everyone already did.


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DarkTundras

Member

01-07-2013

The ones who are all for these riven nerfs seem to not even play her enough to understand her play style.


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X74

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
DoubleLane:
this is not a nerf.... it's barely worth mentioning hp regen who gives a **** about base hp regen honestly when is 5 going to make a difference, everybody just chugs hp pots and flasks now days anyways... as for her ult good she doesn't need to have it up every fight course oh wait she will still have it every fight casue it only went up by 5 seconds at end lvl which isnt worth mentioning and a bit at lvl 1 who cares by the time u get back into lane from backing or dieing from the fight w.e that difference will be gone... and then the shield is a buff not a nerf



It's funny because hp/5 is actually one of the most subtle yet effective means of countering consistent amounts of harass since it takes no gold to take advantage of, unlike hp pots, which is the only thing Riven has going for her against it due to the fact she's all melee.

For you to say it's not worth mentioning really gives me the impression that you have no idea what you're talking about. I can even quote a Red saying this almost word for word if I can find the thread:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28265959#28265959

Quote:
Xypherous:
When you recover 120 to 180 health a minute from base stats alone - damage doesn't really stick as well as it should - given how few chances a Riven player will give you to land damage in the first place.

HP/5 is one of the more powerful and invisible forms of sustain on kits - and one of the least interactive.

It tends to also amplify in effectiveness when you're doing well but still not help you out when you're doing poorly, leading to poor resilience and a general inability of the player to try to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.


Helps for small amounts of damage, but if you're doing bad it doesn't help as much, which is fine considering she has to go all in, and right up in your face to do anything to anything and will most likely take a small or heavy beating in the process.

You either think Riven's hp/5 is balanced or not, or don't think much of it at all. If you think it's balanced, good for you, if not, then I'd like to point you right over to Garen and give you a gander of his health regen passive, THAT is a lot of health regen, but not unbalanced because it can be stopped by just hitting him, and if you think hp/5 is nothing, then once again, I point you to Garen.


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Samwel93

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
It tends to also amplify in effectiveness when you're doing well but still not help you out when you're doing poorly, leading to poor resilience and a general inability of the player to try to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.


So make Riven worse when she is doing well and even more useless then she already is when she is doing poorly? That's not adding counter play that is just straight up making her bad. I don't understand why people have such a hard time with Riven she really isn't hard to beat if you just build armor I guarantee you will stomp her long before she gets a black cleaver if you do.


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Aya Shameimaru

Senior Member

01-07-2013

Quote:
Taikero:
Yes, I only "look at number". That's the only valid way to construct an argument.

Additionally, you can't compare two champions. Riot designers have expressed this multiple times in the forums. Each champion has to be balanced separately from other champions and cannot be compared 1-to-1 against individual champions due to the possibilities of different laning choices, lane matchups, and item builds that are possible. This is exactly why balance is so difficult, because very small changes can have large effects, and it's only by comparing the old state to the new state that you can have an idea of how it affects the champion.



You don't have to achieve 100% effectiveness for it to outstrip the old 5 health per 5 seconds efficiency. Additionally, this change was made in order to force Riven players to make the choice to be aggressive when their shield is available and then back off until it's up again. This provides a cadence and counterplay that has not been present in Riven's gameplay, another point brought up by Riot amid these concerns over the so-called nerfs.



The 10 health buff on shield is worth more, so long as you're not a foolish player and never use the shield when you attack/are attacked. You will always negate the same or more damage using the shield than you would have passively with just health regeneration in the same period of time.



You're making sweeping assumptions about Riven players and you're also assuming Riven players will play stupidly and allow themselves to get hit like crazy when their shield is down. The whole point of the change is to encourage active play and discourage Riven from just sitting in the lane playing passively.



My argument also applied to cooldown reduction. Any cooldown reduction also increases the value of the extra 10 health on the shield above and beyond a measly 5 health per 5 seconds.

Additionally, if 5 health is so important to you, just build a dinky Rejuvenation Bead for 180 gold. You can either sell it off later or build it into Tiamat/Ravenous Hydra, and you not only have a stronger shield but the same health regeneration as old Riven.



You make a lot of assumptions as to what people build. Just because YOU don't build it doesn't mean other people don't build it.



Again, if you choose to limit yourself and not build into certain items, that's YOUR choice. The options are there which is why Riot is scaling things back to be more in line with counterplay early game against Riven.

All you've shown here is you don't actually care for a discussion on balance and instead you attacked me directly, which is a strategy used by people who don't actually have anything to add to the true conversation.

The entire point of this change is that it is going to shake up what Riven players are used to and force them to explore new strategies. Just because Riven players may or may not do certain things now doesn't mean new options aren't valid after these changes go into effect. Keep your mind open and minor changes like these won't feel so constricting, but you'll see where you can take advantage of the change instead.

Just throwing my 2 cents in, but Riven is an AD Caster, so your argument of how "Just because you don't build it doesn't mean no one does," people don't build it on her because that's not how you optimize. People intentionally don't build a Zephyr or a Zeke's on her because that Attack Speed is useless on her, and especially with the Zephyr because the rest of the stats are pretty near trash.


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Fiora All Night

Senior Member

01-08-2013

So if it takes about 2400 gold to get max CD items (most of which Riven can't use effectively) to get her ult CD to roughly where it is now, then that sounds like a a way too heavy nerf. If you play Riven now and are 2400 gold behind then you are going to be utterly worthless, and that's without the massive hp/regen nerf to make you buy more hp pots.

Obviously that's exaggerated a little since Riven should be buying CDR as it is, but even saying that Riven's early game is 1000 gold less effective with much worse natural sustain is kind of hard to take lightly.


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DarkTundras

Member

01-08-2013

Her Health regen was bumped up to 5.5