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Should Riven be nerfed?

Yes, Riven should be nerfed 161 33.06%
No, Riven should not be nerfed 326 66.94%
Voters 487 .

Riven Nerf in the next Patch

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Pîkapîka3

Member

12-29-2012

Riven:

Base Health regen per 5 seconds reduced to 4.5 from 9.5
Blade of Exile cooldown increased to 110/80/50 seconds from 75/60/45
Valor's shield absorb increased to 70/100/130/160/190 from 60/90/120/150/180

This is what I found about Riven being nerfed on the next patch. Tell me what you guys decide if she should be nerfed, because I honestly think this nerf is way tooo heavy.


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ImVeryLegendary

Junior Member

12-29-2012

She shouldn't get a nerf. This will create less sustain whens he plays top lane.


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Pudding I

Junior Member

12-29-2012

I don't like this nerf. Riven not even OP, so why nerf her!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is only OP if she gets fed.


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mouses

Junior Member

12-29-2012

Riven can only snowball as it is... She already has a really hard time recovering from losing a lane.


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Pîkapîka3

Member

12-29-2012

Bump


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x1HitWonder

Member

12-29-2012

Don't nerf Riven! Exactly as people say if she starts off bad she practically sucks so nerfing her that hard would just destroy the character.


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Taikero

Senior Member

12-29-2012

What is changing is hardly a nerf.

From another thread I posted in here:



Let's examine the changes to Riven on the PBE.

Base Health regen per 5 seconds reduced to 4.5 from 9.5

Health regeneration was reduced by 1 health per second of time that elapses. Over a minute, Riven will not receive 60 health she would have otherwise received, assuming she is under 100% health, which will not always be true.


Valor's shield absorb increased to 70/100/130/160/190 from 60/90/120/150/180

Valor's Cooldown: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6

Valor received a 10 health absorb increase, with a base 10 second cooldown at level 1. Assuming the skill is used perfectly every time it is off cooldown and is used to block damage during trades, this equates to 1 health per second over time, regardless of being 100% health or not.

After Valor is increased to level 2 or higher, or any cooldown reduction is obtained, the value of the increased shield absorb rises above Riven's reduced health regeneration. The only downside is that Valor is an activated ability instead of an automatic regeneration statistic.

In other words, if Valor is used with any modicum of skill, you could say that Riven has actually been buffed here, and Riot is pushing Riven in the direction of trading aggressively rather than passively regenerating, more in line with her personality and lore.


Blade of Exile cooldown increased to 110/80/50 seconds from 75/60/45

Cooldown increased by: 35/20/5 seconds at each level, respectively.

It is clear that Riot didn't want to touch Riven's late game all that much, but considered that cooldown reduction might be easier to obtain in Season 3 than in Season 2.

If Riven rushes certain specific items (not that she would rush all three of these at once, but it is possible), she can obtain maxed cooldown reduction (39%) with just 3,637 gold (Ionian Boots of Lucidity, Brutalizer, Stinger going to Zephyr).

Let's assume that getting these three items takes Riven until mid-game. With 39% CDR, that 80 second cooldown of a level 2 Blade of Exile turns into a 48.8 second cooldown, which still allows high levels of aggression from Riven and is more than 10 seconds lower than her previous base level 2 cooldown.

Even if Riven only obtains two items (Ionian Boots and Brutalizer for 2,387 gold), and does so early with her ultimate at level 1, that still puts her at 29% CDR going into mid-game for a level 1 ultimate cooldown of 78.1 seconds, or just over a minute, and very close to her old level 1 cooldown.




TLDR version: Riven has more survivability if she trades well early game, but will suffer if she plays passively. Her ultimate's cooldown was adjusted to account for new Season 3 items and masteries and Riven's ability to itemize later than she did in Season 2 for Tenacity, instead opting for Cooldown Reduction early on.


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Kuroneko321

Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Taikero:
What is changing is hardly a nerf.

From another thread I posted in here:



Let's examine the changes to Riven on the PBE.

Base Health regen per 5 seconds reduced to 4.5 from 9.5

Health regeneration was reduced by 1 health per second of time that elapses. Over a minute, Riven will not receive 60 health she would have otherwise received, assuming she is under 100% health, which will not always be true.


Valor's shield absorb increased to 70/100/130/160/190 from 60/90/120/150/180

Valor's Cooldown: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6

Valor received a 10 health absorb increase, with a base 10 second cooldown at level 1. Assuming the skill is used perfectly every time it is off cooldown and is used to block damage during trades, this equates to 1 health per second over time, regardless of being 100% health or not.

After Valor is increased to level 2 or higher, or any cooldown reduction is obtained, the value of the increased shield absorb rises above Riven's reduced health regeneration. The only downside is that Valor is an activated ability instead of an automatic regeneration statistic.

In other words, if Valor is used with any modicum of skill, you could say that Riven has actually been buffed here, and Riot is pushing Riven in the direction of trading aggressively rather than passively regenerating, more in line with her personality and lore.


Blade of Exile cooldown increased to 110/80/50 seconds from 75/60/45

Cooldown increased by: 35/20/5 seconds at each level, respectively.

It is clear that Riot didn't want to touch Riven's late game all that much, but considered that cooldown reduction might be easier to obtain in Season 3 than in Season 2.

If Riven rushes certain specific items (not that she would rush all three of these at once, but it is possible), she can obtain maxed cooldown reduction (39%) with just 3,637 gold (Ionian Boots of Lucidity, Brutalizer, Stinger going to Zephyr).

Let's assume that getting these three items takes Riven until mid-game. With 39% CDR, that 80 second cooldown of a level 2 Blade of Exile turns into a 48.8 second cooldown, which still allows high levels of aggression from Riven and is more than 10 seconds lower than her previous base level 2 cooldown.

Even if Riven only obtains two items (Ionian Boots and Brutalizer for 2,387 gold), and does so early with her ultimate at level 1, that still puts her at 29% CDR going into mid-game for a level 1 ultimate cooldown of 78.1 seconds, or just over a minute, and very close to her old level 1 cooldown.




TLDR version: Riven has more survivability if she trades well early game, but will suffer if she plays passively. Her ultimate's cooldown was adjusted to account for new Season 3 items and masteries and Riven's ability to itemize later than she did in Season 2 for Tenacity, instead opting for Cooldown Reduction early on.


I've copy and pasted this from my Riven post against above argument. Person above does not have sufficient knowledge of Riven and only look at number. Let's me show why above argument is invalid.

You said comparing two different champions are not good way to understand balance. I completely disagree with you on this point. League of Legends is all about two different champions fighting on the lane (unless normal blind pick, then occasional mirror match). If you don't compare two different champs, where can we have any standard for which champs is balanced or not? Only way to understand balance is comparing different champions (People can compare same champion all day, but won't solve any balance problem. New Diana vs Old Diana, OMG new Diana sucks, let's buff her back again, OMG Remake Xin Zhao so strong compared to old Xin, let nerf him to the ground. No problem solved).

Let's start with shield argument. You said that if shield is always used perfectly (as used up all shield point blocking) every 10 second, it is better health regen since she won't always be under 100% health. Let me ask you, do you even think that's possible? I played Riven more than 300 game, and I was never able to use her valor every 10 second that used 100% of her shield point. That's something that even pro gamer can't achieve.

Riven won't be in situation every 10 second that she will need to use her valor to block incoming damage. What if enemy decided you attack Riven while her valor is on CD but not after it was up for another 20 sec? Perfect situation does not happen in the actual game, and shouldn't be used for the balance argument.

Plus, top is all about damage trade, and most of time, she will be under 100% health, even if her shield is used perfectly (top champs easily penetrate her puny lvl 1 shield), and since she would most likely to be under 100% health, 5hp/5sec health regen is much valuable then 10 shield buff.

Shield buff argument might seems valid if only looked at ideal situation, but in fact, it's completely not adequate because she won't be able to use it every ten second to it's full potential (in fact, she would barely be able to use it to its full potential every 30 second if you actually play her). Plus, any harassment she receives between valor CD will stick much longer and completely weakens her early game.

I won't even go into lvl 2 valor argument because that's when she's way past her early laning phase (unless she want to lose her damage output and cc by not putting skill point into w)

About CD reduction item, all CD reduction item, except Brutalizer, is not ideal for the Riven. Allow me to list all non AP and Mana CD reduction items
List: Zephyr, Zeke's Herald, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Brutalizer, Black Cleaver, Brutalizer, Stinger, Spirit Visage, Kindlegem, Ionian Boots.
Out of these items, only valid early CD items for Riven are Brutalizer, Black Cleaver, and may be Spirit Visage and Ionian under very specificity circumstances.
Reasons Why These Items are Inappropriate:
Stinger & Zephyr - not valid for Riven because she doesn't need that much attack speed and movement speed. Causes her immense damage loss and leave her useless (remember that item spots are limited).
Shurelya & Kindlegem & Zeke's Herald - Support or Jungle item and doesn't fit with Riven (buy one of these item, reported for trolling).
Youmuu's Ghostblade - Black Cleaver simply is better option
Ionian Boots - Riven is very vulnerable to CC. Without tenacity, Riven pretty much gets owned by CC and become useless in team fight. Since Zephyr isn't the one of option, this is not very viable as well.
[Exception: When enemy team got almost no CC and she's doing well enough to not buy Ninja Tabi or Mercury Threads for armor/MR]
Spirit Visage - It got very useful stats for Riven, but usually viable during late game. Go this early, she experience huge deal loss like Zephyr.
[Exception: She's losing lane against AP champs and need some tankiness to survive, but in this case, she won't be any use in team fight anyway]

This section clearly shows that you are only looking at number, but not her play style. There is reason why most Riven player not go for the Ionian Boot or Zephyr. Some Riven player occasionally go for the Ionian Boot, but that probably won't be viable after the nerf.

Conclusion: Riven's extra 10 shield won't be able to make her more aggressive in lane because no Riven player (including elo 2800 players) can use valor to its full potential every 10 second. In fact, since she needs to keep her health as high as possible (due to low health regen), she probably have to become very passive and won't be able to gain early advantage. Plus, most of season 3 CD reduction items, except Brutalizer and Black Cleaver, are not very viable to Riven, and cannot justify her 35 second lvl 1 ult nerf.


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MichaeI Jaxon

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Pîkapîka3:
Riven:

Base Health regen per 5 seconds reduced to 4.5 from 9.5
Blade of Exile cooldown increased to 110/80/50 seconds from 75/60/45
Valor's shield absorb increased to 70/100/130/160/190 from 60/90/120/150/180

This is what I found about Riven being nerfed on the next patch. Tell me what you guys decide if she should be nerfed, because I honestly think this nerf is way tooo heavy.

Pika pls!


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Pîkapîka3

Member

12-30-2012

^_^