Jungle buff "sharing" needs a revamp

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Koldheartedjsp

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Duck View Post
Yes, that certainly sounds like a winning strategy that we'll see in lots or tournaments to come. You're an idiot and a jackass.
lol'd. I don't care enough about a game that I'll never be good enough at to make it mean anything. I do what i want, and if people take my buffs after i tell them not to, i see no reason to stay in the game. I'd rather afk, and piss off someone who tried to piss me off, than attempt to carry an *******

if they were carrying me, even better B) . They'll likely get even more angry

serves them right for attempting to steal a buff when i said i was keeping it


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MrGarthonk

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
List 3 indisputable reasons each for a jungler to keep red and blue buff during the laning phase. Illustrate how that helps their team more than giving teammates the buffs while they lane.
1) The jungler often requires the buff more than the laners do. There are plenty of manaless champions in the midlane, and plenty of junglers who would benefit from it a lot. Sure, if you have a Swain or Orianna midlane or a Shyvana or Lee Sin in the jungle, then it would pass to the midlane, but that doesn't mean that it's always the case.

2) Red buff is often more important on the jungler than on the carry- many junglers lack the necessary CC to gank efficiently (Shyvana or pre-6 Warwick immediately spring to mind).

3) If the mid lane has obtained blue buff from their lane opponent or opposing jungler, or has stolen the buff (potentially with the assistance of the jungler) they really don't need another one, meaning the jungler can easily take said buff. This argument works for red buff as well, btw.


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FergusMacBolg

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGarthonk View Post
1) The jungler often requires the buff more than the laners do. There are plenty of manaless champions in the midlane, and plenty of junglers who would benefit from it a lot. Sure, if you have a Swain or Orianna midlane or a Shyvana or Lee Sin in the jungle, then it would pass to the midlane, but that doesn't mean that it's always the case.
Disputable. If your midlaner has blue, they can spam spells more often, zoning out the other laner. This is true regardless of resource type.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGarthonk View Post
1) The jungler often requires the buff more than the laners do. There are plenty of manaless champions in the midlane, and plenty of junglers who would benefit from it a lot. Sure, if you have a Swain or Orianna midlane or a Shyvana or Lee Sin in the jungle, then it would pass to the midlane, but that doesn't mean that it's always the case.

2) Red buff is often more important on the jungler than on the carry- many junglers lack the necessary CC to gank efficiently (Shyvana or pre-6 Warwick immediately spring to mind).

3) If the mid lane has obtained blue buff from their lane opponent or opposing jungler, or has stolen the buff (potentially with the assistance of the jungler) they really don't need another one, meaning the jungler can easily take said buff. This argument works for red buff as well, btw.
1) This is overwhelmingly an opinion, and it's also extremely unlikely. The jungler will be seeing much less action being the jungler than a mid lane will see being in mid lane. The jungler's resource demands will be lower over the length of the laning phase than that of the mid or top lane. The bottom line here is that the jungler spends too much time roaming to be a priority beneficiary of the jungle buffs.

2) Junglers who don't gank well pre-6 don't gank any better with red buff pre-6. For champs like Warwick and Shyvana, ganking pre-6 and post-6 is like night and day; a red buff isn't going to accelerate their gank potential that much. However, handing red buff to your ADC bot lane means that their ranged attacks now apply a slow and a DoT to everything they attack. An ADC in bot lane will definitely activate the red buff passive incredibly more times than a jungler would; t is unrealistic that they wouldn't.

3) This isn't a concrete example at all. This is a "maybe this will happen" type of reason. This is nothing you can plan out; it's an opportunity that has to present itself.


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Yi Bot

Member

12-29-2012

Fails to give concrete examples; calls everything everyone else says opinions. Everything he claims is a fact. Interesting.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

12-29-2012

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Originally Posted by Girl Problems View Post
Fails to give concrete examples; calls everything everyone else says opinions. Everything he claims is a fact. Interesting.
Cite it or shut it.


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Yi Bot

Member

12-29-2012

Cite what? You provide one "example" of the strength of buffs, and that's just in the ganking potential of heroes Pre and Post-6.

Everything you are saying is based off of an assumption. The assumption that the jungler not only will, but absolutely -has- to provide his buff to his teammates, when in reality it is an option. You are personally deciding that it is more advantageous for member X to have the blue/red than it is for yourself.

Are you really frustrated that a player makes a sacrifice to... play their role?

I want more than anecdotal evidence that this is actually an issue, and you don't have any to provide. You have no evidence that this is an issue whatsoever, and are begging people to prove to you that it isn't an issue. It is your job to validate that there is a problem, not for us to argue that there isn't.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Girl Problems View Post
Cite what? You provide one "example" of the strength of buffs, and that's just in the ganking potential of heroes Pre and Post-6.

Everything you are saying is based off of an assumption. The assumption that the jungler not only will, but absolutely -has- to provide his buff to his teammates, when in reality it is an option. You are personally deciding that it is more advantageous for member X to have the blue/red than it is for yourself.

Are you really frustrated that a player makes a sacrifice to... play their role?

I want more than anecdotal evidence that this is actually an issue, and you don't have any to provide. You have no evidence that this is an issue whatsoever, and are begging people to prove to you that it isn't an issue. It is your job to validate that there is a problem, not for us to argue that there isn't.
Jungle buffs providing a greater benefit to the lanes than to the jungler during the laning phase due to the buffs being used more by the laning champions due to the increased amount of interaction with enemy players in the lanes is not an assumption.

You need to pull your head out of your ass and listen to reason.


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Yi Bot

Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Duck View Post
Jungle buffs providing a greater benefit to the lanes than to the jungler during the laning phase due to the buffs being used more by the laning champions due to the increased amount of interaction with enemy players in the lanes is not an assumption.

You need to pull your head out of your ass and listen to reason.
What reason? You aren't providing anything but your opinion. The jungler is the most mobile hero, and in the early game can consistently gank better by making use of the buffs. There are times where it will be more beneficial to allow certain lanes to make use of the buff, obviously, but not 100% of the time. How about you actually give us some evidence of your claim instead of stating your opinions as facts without any evidence to back it up.

Give us a combined list of buff usage of the buffs throughout early game from high level game play to prove that this is an issue. Don't just claim its an issue and expect us to accept it because you said so.

Just because a hero has more interaction with the opponent in lane, doesn't mean it will be more dramatic. A successful gank will kill an enemy, increased harassment in lane, depending on the matchup, may just serve to increase the likelihood instead of assuring it, like the jungler having the buff would.


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Junpei Tenmyouji

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koldheartedjsp View Post
lol'd. I don't care enough about a game that I'll never be good enough at to make it mean anything. I do what i want, and if people take my buffs after i tell them not to, i see no reason to stay in the game. I'd rather afk, and piss off someone who tried to piss me off, than attempt to carry an *******

if they were carrying me, even better B) . They'll likely get even more angry

serves them right for attempting to steal a buff when i said i was keeping it
Well you must be a joy to play games with.

"I DIDN'T GET WHAT I WANT SO I'M GOING TO RUIN THE GAME FOR YOU"