The implementation is done, but we want the map to have a chance to mature First

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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golly View Post
I am of the opinion that ranked won't fix the issues with populace. I think it will help with the mode hemorrhaging players, however.

I am also of the opinion that balance changes won't help with the populace. Something more drastic has to be done with the mode in order for it to gain numbers. Riot sponsored tournaments, riot streams... something. Maybe first win of the day bonus for Dominion.
Well, look at it this way. Let's just assume ranked is flipped on tomorrow. 10% of SR players decide they're going to give it another shot. What do you think will happen when half of those players encounter Kassadin, or BFT Teemo, Jayce? Especially when they come in applying their SR logic to Dominion games, because that's all they know (and there is nothing wrong with that.) They rage out, quit after 3-4 games... because they just don't know any better. You might think, "Too bad! If you're too stupid to figure out something new, then go back to SR, noob!" A very poor stance to take if you want to grow your player base.

I agree that something more has to be done, hence the 'promotional work' part of my post. I've long been advocating the launch of a tutorial mode from Dominion, and I'd love to see featured streams and fansites (DominateDominion). I want to see more Rioters playing Dominion and inviting players to their games. I want to see more people saying, "Hey! This is actually really cool! You should come check it out!"

That being said, I believe the next steps should follow the following order:
1. Balance game to grow viable champion pool to something comparable to SR. No more than 3 mandatory bans.
2. Promote the game mode through featured streams, featured games, tutorial mode, and Rioter support/participation. Double IP weekend?
3. While (2) is in high-gear, and not until after tutorial mode is released... RELEASE THE KRAKEN. AKA: Ranked.

In my armchair view, it's all downhill from there.


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Phourc

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phourc View Post
I'll have to dig around for the exact quote when I get home but I'm pretty sure it'd take a good chunk of time to implement still - time Nome would rather use for new items/aura changes/etc... While a lot of this situation is frustrating as hell, *that* at least makes sense.
Found it: (inb4 necro)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
[from DD chat]
RiotNome: when brackhar says infrastructure
RiotNome: it means if we devoted a week or two's time off the current projects, it's doable
RiotNome: that doesn't sound like much time
RiotNome: but it's actually a lot of time
RiotNome: because of the number of people involved
RiotNome: and how important their own projects are
RiotNome: the real answer comes down to a low population, so it's difficult to justify from a production standpoint to dedicate those resources

Also:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Double IP weekend?
We'll have to ask Nourne the PR guy. ^^


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Orphane

Senior Member

01-03-2013

it's Nome.


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KaWraith

Senior Member

01-03-2013

I was present for this conversation in the DD forum, and have oft repeated this info.

RiotNome: when brackhar says infrastructure
RiotNome: it means if we devoted a week or two's time off the current projects, it's doable
RiotNome: that doesn't sound like much time
RiotNome: but it's actually a lot of time
RiotNome: because of the number of people involved
RiotNome: and how important their own projects are
RiotNome: the real answer comes down to a low population, so it's difficult to justify from a production standpoint to dedicate those resources


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Do you have any sources to back up anything you're saying here, outside of a year-old quote with no details what-so-ever?

To be clear, I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm wondering why you're bothering to say any of what was typed in this post at all, unless of course you're speaking from real-world ranked implementation experience.
Stuff would get done if they were allowed to do it. The game client would be updated to a better one, the unused achievements tab that has been there for years could be removed but it remains. The staff are not allowed to touch that stuff without permission, if they were it would take very very little time to fix. However that would not generate any actual money for their China overlords so they are pigeon-holed into champion and Teemo skin duty. That is my point and what Brackhar means by "it's already done", it is already done he just needs to be allowed to get it done. Most of the time spent (about 1 week or so) would be on the testing side of things, making sure the servers can handle it, etc. The code is already exists.

So yes I am speaking from experience. It is no coincidence that dominion started getting some "changes" at the same time the new twisted treeline was released, that is how business works. This is why things such as the "stealth remake" took 2 years, it was not a priority as remaking a current champion does not generate any additional revenue.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
Stuff would get done if they were allowed to do it. The game client would be updated to a better one, the unused achievements tab that has been there for years could be removed but it remains. The staff are not allowed to touch that stuff without permission, if they were it would take very very little time to fix. However that would not generate any actual money for their China overlords so they are pigeon-holed into champion and Teemo skin duty. That is my point and what Brackhar means by "it's already done", it is already done he just needs to be allowed to get it done. Most of the time spent (about 1 week or so) would be on the testing side of things, making sure the servers can handle it, etc. The code is already exists.
What? No it wouldn't. They are that slow sometimes. And plus, they have 5 things for every single person to do. You might find it hard to believe, but I can summarize all that they accomplished AND all they didn't in 2012 if you need it.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
What? No it wouldn't.
Try reading the entire post. Here I'll assist you, consider it my good deed for the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
It is no coincidence that dominion started getting some "changes" at the same time the new twisted treeline was released, that is how business works. This is why things such as the "stealth remake" took 2 years, it was not a priority as remaking a current champion does not generate any additional revenue.
But if you still don't understand, the only reason we "got" nome is because of the new TT. The only reason dom got any changes is because of the new TT, without it nome would of never been assigned to dominion duty. This is why we have been completely ignored for the past year, they (riot) consider the mode a write off. It is not that they cannot do anything to fix dom or they do not have the resources todo so, a new champion is a higher priority to them. New champions mean more money.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
Try reading the entire post. Here I'll assist you, consider it my good deed for the day.



But if you still don't understand, the only reason we "got" nome is because of the new TT. The only reason dom got any changes is because of the new TT, without it nome would of never been assigned to dominion duty. This is why we have been completely ignored for the past year, they (riot) consider the mode a write off. It is not that they cannot do anything to fix dom or they do not have the resources todo so, a new champion is a higher priority to them. New champions mean more money.
Someone doesn't seem to understand the concept of non-convertible resources...


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bierfaust

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Someone doesn't seem to understand the concept of non-convertible resources...
Irrelevant. If a company releases 3 distinct game modes, then they should have 1 team assigned to each game mode to ensure it gets the attention it needs and that the players deserve. That's how you run a business. Each project has a group working on it, and each group has a leader.

Even if the group assigned to DOM was 3 people, that is 2 + 3/4 more attention than it currently gets and would greatly benefit from it more than the current afterthought changes that have been happening. Not to mention the player base would be happier, which leads to more players which in turns leads to more money, if not at the very least more potential money.

Granted Nome got dropped in the deep end, he probably originally signed up to work on TT, but Riot said, nope, you are working on "other" content that isn't anything to do with SR.
I feel sorry for the guy a bit, but honestly the sooner he throws in the towel and convinces someone higher up the food chain that DOM needs more attention than a couple of hours a fortnight/month, then we won't see any of the major changes that the game mode so badly needs.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
So yes I am speaking from experience.
That's not experience. That is speculation based off a few breadcrumbs.

However, it is a resource issue. There is no doubt about that.

Riot has done a really awful job at supporting their other game modes. Support for Dominion has improved, and I'm a little frustrated with the pacing. I'd really like to see weekly patches for Dominion instead of bi-weekly, or worse.

The good news is that Riot finally separated balance patches from champion release. That cycle really pissed me off.