Lets talk Strategy with Papa Jungler... (ongoing discussion)

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Masmurdurah

Senior Member

12-28-2012

Hey GD,

Point of this thread?

Answer questions. Share tips. Help the community understand simple things they can do change the outcome of games from the position of jungler.

About Me

I'm just a guy. I main jungle, By default this role requires me to know all the other lanes pretty well. i am confident which ever role I am put in - ADC being my least favorite, though.

I finished season 2 at around 1250 elo, if I remember correctly. Since I have started teaching my friends how to play League (~ 3-4 weeks ago), I have also learned a great deal, myself. Because of this, I have climbed to 1530 something relatively easily - and I dont feel I have reached a plateau, I have just been playing normals with the children, lately (they arent actually kids, btw).

---------------------------LETS GET TO IT---------------------------

1a. Communicate with your lanes at ALL TIMES.

It is all too often that people flame and rage at their lanes for not reacting appropriately for a gank. "I was right there, you didnt do this... this ... this.... and I died. GG noob bot. /all report bot plz"
As a jungler you need to recognize that your lanes have a personal experience with their lane-opponents. Maybe that Taric-Graves bot lane had 100% murdered your Kog and he is a little skiddish about going in. You need to know this info before you even think about walking down there. Ask bot lane if they would like assistance, and if they are comfortable a fighting/diving if necessary.

Let them know, "When I ping, go in and fight. If I ping tower I am going to dive" or something to that effect. They aren't telepathic.

1b. Constantly talk to your lanes.

You are Papa Jungle. The lanes are your babies. You gotta call them every few minutes to make sure they havent started shooting heroin while you were out on a business trip. I mean, really. Your meetings with the Rude Dudes/Stone Brothers/Dog and the Blue/Red boss are pretty boring... feel free to put your lanes on speakerphone between them.

If you are in touch with your lanes at all times it increases the awareness for EVERYONE on your team. Here is an example:

"Hey top, how is that Riven?"
"Eh. Im alright. She is beating me up a little, but she is pushing pretty hard, so I am okay."
"Cool. If she gets crazy, let me know. Riven is hard to secure a kill so im gonna try to help mid a bit - see if we can shut down this Morg."

Something that simple can change the attitude of a match. It lets your top know you arent neglecting him and WHY you are prioritizing mid over him. Also lets your bot lane know why you arent camping, as well.

2. Wards! Sick ones.

Pink wards are the "Sweet Baby Jesus" to your Sunday choir. OMG OMG. There is absoloutley no excuse for a lane not to be gankable due to wards. Is that Soraka rocking a Ruby Sightstone at 4 minutes in the game, somehow? Grab 2 pink wards to plant in the river bush and tri-bush. Yeah, it is 250 gold, minus any wards you may kill, but it will change the way bot lane has to play. They are no longer safe. They cant safely harass. They cant plant any new wards. This WILL give your bot lane a significant advantage and WILL change the tide of battle without you even sppearing in lane. Buy PINK wards as a jungler.

----------------ANSWERING GD QUESTIONS-------------------
"Jungler Discussion - Sightstone and Jungler Items "

Quote:
I've began to consider dropping the idea of ever going for the Spirit of Golem/Wriath/Lizard etc, or even just leaving it at Machete. However, If I wanted to buy a Wriggles for my jungler, I probably would.
Leaving your machete in its pure form is 100% viable for either type of jungler - single target or AoE. Although, it may not be optimal on some, such as Pantheon - as he has pretty bad sustain issues w/ mana and HP.

However, I would only recommend skipping SStone/Xman-claws if you can go right into a tier 2 item on your first B.

As far as upgrading to the tier 3 SStone... I (generally) do not recommend it. The cost/benefit ratio for those items is absurd, and HP/MP5 stats are "wasted" once the laning phase ends.

Instead of spending 1600 gold to jump from SStone to Lizard stone... go buy something that is going to prepare you for the roaming phase. This is when, in solo que, people are figuring out if its time to teamfight or not. lol, aka chaos mode.

Quote:
However, with either staying at Machete or Spirit Stone, I would grab early Sightstones, either using to to protect my lanes, or using it in the enemy jungles so we have a better idea of where they are, or to set up counterganks, and then go into Ruby Sightstone.
Sightstone is a great item for anyone to pick up, and I like this mentality (I wish more people had it)! However, as describled above, I designate the jungler as the PINK warder. Unfortunately Sightstones cannot pruduce our sickly friends.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryoshell17 View Post
Are there any AP mids that are viable in the jungle?
YUP! Sure are. But before I go off listing champs arbitrarily lets define what makes a viable jungler.

#1. They have to be able to survive the jungle.

Meaning; you dont want to be Snake in the Grassiopea on your first clear, getting to red buff at 20% hp and down 4 pots. If you are facing an agressive (or intelligent) enemy jungler, your wraiths/red will probably be warded and you will get murdered just by making eye contact with an opponent. :P

#2. Have to be able to gank effectively.

This one is a little more in the air, so play it by the ear. Generally, you are going to want to want one of two things on your jungler:

CC or burst/reliable damage.

CC junglers (preferably hard cc - stun/knockup/...etc) are optimal. This gives you more ganking options, since not all lanes will always have CC.

Good examples of these are:
Ree Shin - obnoxious knockback,
Tree - root and brief knockup,
Fid - fear and silence.

Damage junglers are more of a rare breed when it comes to reliablility. Just like any pure damage champ they require successful ganks to be effective through the game. A damage jungler won't have any (or perhaps just a soft cc) for ganking. Rather, they rely on their lanes to CC an opponent, or to catch an emey making a mistake in order to secure a kill. These junglers will do heavy burst or reliable sustained damage to gank.

Examples of these are:
Eve - aoe slow from ulti,
Nunu - who is an edge case since that snowball is absurd and is more about helping his lane kill the opponent - as opposed to his own damage,
Fiora/Yi - no CC at all but have extremely high raw damage potential.

Now, to answer your question...

AP Junglers that can also mid - Keep in mind this is just what I have personally seen, and believe fit the criteria above. I dont know if they all work at the pro level. Also, please dont criticize the list unless you have solid data as why they dont belong. (Asterisks beisdes the ones that I play if you are curious.)

Cho - Sustain in the jungle and crazy good CC.
Diana* - High damage ganks, and good lane awareness alost guarantees kills post 6.
Elise* - Sustain in the jungle, hard CC, burst damage and capable of tower diving with a reasonably low risk.
Eve* - Fast jungle clear provides safe jungling. One of the champs I recommend getting a Spirit Stone.
Fid* - Not the safest jungle pick due to blue reliability, but has crazy CC, sustain and DPS.
Galio* - Surprisingly fast clear times/infinte sustain with blue. Strong game presence at 6. Everyone wants a hug. Pre-6 still has strong ganks due to the high burst and strong AoE damage/slow. Although the it can be easily dodged is many cases.
Malph (who is going mid more often since the meta is shifting - which we can talk about if you are interested),
Sion* - Right now I am experimenting with him, and seems to be very niche. I'd classify it as a pubstomp. Can be done as AD or AP. No sustain (apart from ult) and hurts himself by attacking, but has an absurd shield so you wont be getting hit by the jungle mobs at all after your first clear.
Syndra (I know, right?) - It was an enemy jungler so I didnt get to see how he did it, but he was able to gank @ 4, and proceed from there june any other DPS AP jungler. Not sure if he used some cheezy synergy with his team... but if I had to take a guess he used that troll-grab/pushback to midigate damage and dps at the same time.




-------------------I will be updating this thread regularly with replies to questions on GD. Feel free to ask questions on here, as well. If you have concerns on certain strategies or if I am giving incorrect info, let me know so we can discuss them!------------


Stay Classy, GD.


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Masmurdurah

Senior Member

12-29-2012

I am back, GD. Lets see whats going on, today.


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NobSaiboot

Senior Member

12-29-2012

This may seems like a troll...But is Spawn Karthus Viable?


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Masmurdurah

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
This may seems like a troll...But is Spawn Karthus Viable?
Spawn? You mean, revive/tele?

Yes, in 5-man.
No, in solo.

In order for it to be successful your team has to be familiar with how the revive/tele strategy works. Think about this. How often do you see a champ die early in a teamfight with a GA. Afraid to lose a 4v5, that team disengages leaving the 5th to GA-revive, then die again.

So frustrating.

As revive-tele Karth you will have the same scenario. You will go balls-deep, die... revive after your passive... tele in (IF there is even a ward nearby - good luck relying on randoms to plant one for you) only to notice your team is in the process of retreating... leaving you and your op-ness (puns... ha) by your lonesome.

So, unless you are lucky enough to play with a real competent group of people... I say its not worth the risk. Plus, if it fails - prepare to be flamed to hell.


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Ripdal

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Member

12-29-2012

Awesome! Plain, simple to read, and quite witty, great work on this article. However, it seems a little short, could you give us some more of these awesome JG tips?

I realize that this thread is for just that, but, you really seem to have the JG down, so if you had anything else to add, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks for the awesome article, keep up the good work! XD


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Masmurdurah

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripdal View Post
Awesome! Plain, simple to read, and quite witty, great work on this article. However, it seems a little short, could you give us some more of these awesome JG tips?

I realize that this thread is for just that, but, you really seem to have the JG down, so if you had anything else to add, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks for the awesome article, keep up the good work! XD
Hehehe, thanks for the morale boost.

Im scanning GD now for any popular topics and will be adding new sections accordingly!

Is there anything specific you would like addressed? I am pretty versed in the mechanics of all the lanes as well as jungle, so ask away!


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Masmurdurah

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Edit: answered a question regarding the use of sightstone on a jungler. Also, added info on whether it is wise to upgrade the machete or not.


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NobSaiboot

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Fair enough here's a more realistic question (I use that term loosely but bare with me). Are there any AP mids that are viable in the jungle?


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lSwearSheWas18

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Great thread.
The big new thing I learned was the pink ward thing.
Good job on this sorta guide.


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lSwearSheWas18

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Sry for double post, but to answer Cryoshell's question:
Diana.


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