[guide] Singed, the Urine Guided Rokkit

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Awaj

Junior Member

12-04-2009

My favorite:

Ghost, Teleport

9-0-21

27x AP/lvl runes, 3x gold/10s

R, ulti > Q, poison > E, leap > W, slow

- Regrowth Pendant (Starter -> FoN)
- Mercury's Treads
- Rod of Ages
- Force of Nature
- Guardian Angel
- Banshee's Veil
- Sunfire Cape


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Octovert

Senior Member

12-04-2009

I don't think that's urine...


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Lemt

Senior Member

12-04-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaj View Post
My favorite:

Ghost, Teleport

9-0-21

27x AP/lvl runes, 3x gold/10s

R, ulti > Q, poison > E, leap > W, slow

- Regrowth Pendant (Starter -> FoN)
- Mercury's Treads
- Rod of Ages
- Force of Nature
- Guardian Angel
- Banshee's Veil
- Sunfire Cape
I'm thinking about getting movespeed quints, and runes if needed. Too many champions are faster than your base movement, even with +3 boots.
As for your fist item, how about getting Archangel's instead? Archangel's increases your mana pool (longer poison travels), increases your AP (poison more killy) and makes you tougher (100 HP for starters thanks to your passive). And since you can use the poison at no cost every three seconds (toggle it on/off), you should be able to build mana up FAST.

Question: does the staff preserve the +600 mana limit from the Tears? I'm not sure, but let's math it out supposing you DO have that cap. 600 mana limit. +4 mana per use, you need 150 uses. Use every three seconds, it takes you 450 seconds to max out, or 7.5 minutes. But you aren't that perfect, plus you need to use it every once in a while, so let's say it takes you twice as long to max. That's +600 mana 15 minutes after you buy it, so it gives you a total of 1k mana. 2% of that is 20, so it gives you 20 AP. Plus you have a base of 1025 mana at level 18, so that's another 20 AP. Plus the AP it gives you (45) it means 85 AP from the staff. And since it gives you 1k mana, you'll get 250 HP.

Recap:

ARCHANGEL'S STAFF (if it caps at +600 mana)
-Takes 15 minutes to build up.
-85 AP, plus any from other mana-granting items.
-1k mana, plus mana regen.
-250 HP
-2890 gold total

ROD OF AGES
-Takes 15 minutes to build up.
-80 AP
-725 mana, no mana regen.
-725 HP
-3035 gold total.

The extra 425 HP from RoA is a great advantage, but it really depends, IMHO, in whether or not there IS a cap to Archangel's. Guess I'll try it out.


EDIT: A few things I've found out:
-Archangel's cap at 600. I expected this, but it's nice to know for sure.
-Poison Trail does NOT proc Tear/Archangel's/Sheen/whatever. For some unfathomable reason, activating this free ability does NOT count as activating an ability. Why can't I use this OP tactic to my advantage, Riot? Do you hate Singed?
-Archangel's Staf may be better than a Second RoA. The bonuses you'll get immediately are better IMHO, including the mana regeneration. I might even suggest getting Tear before finishing the RoA, unless you are lagging behind, so as to be able to build up the 600 mana faster. And you can live with a bit less HP. This, however, requires more testing.


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Proletaria

Senior Member

12-04-2009

My problem with this build (and singed in general) is the piss poor early game vs. nasty laners who can harass me hard. Perhaps i've played the MF'ing Cho'gath too long and im spoiled from making Ashe and co. run screaming, but I can't for the life of me keep pressure early game vs. good opponents, and it basically saps the gold i need to make a strong mid-game possible. I'd wager that singed really needs a nice lane partner for this to happen (which rarely materialized in my case). Most of my game with singed have been wins, but i'm not exactly the power-player. I'll have to re-read the guild to see if i missed anything.


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condon

Senior Member

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletaria View Post
My problem with this build (and singed in general) is the piss poor early game vs. nasty laners who can harass me hard. Perhaps i've played the MF'ing Cho'gath too long and im spoiled from making Ashe and co. run screaming, but I can't for the life of me keep pressure early game vs. good opponents, and it basically saps the gold i need to make a strong mid-game possible. I'd wager that singed really needs a nice lane partner for this to happen (which rarely materialized in my case). Most of my game with singed have been wins, but i'm not exactly the power-player. I'll have to re-read the guild to see if i missed anything.
You are correct, in that a good lanemate makes your life a ton easier. However, there are some things you can do to combat this. Stay conservative until you have your ult, only really skipping ahead to lay poison for oncoming creep *this is an art, by the way. Too often I see people just making a big poison wall or missing creep. You only need about 2 seconds of poison to hit them all if you do it right.*

You should still be able to farm effectively, just don't get greedy and try a toss unless you know you can stick it. Singed suffers from SAMF syndrome. He needs to be significantly faster than the enemy to be much use.

Basically, wait it out, get pumped, get revenge by melting their faces repeatedly later while screaming and pretending you're Hulk Hogan.


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Proletaria

Senior Member

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by condon View Post
You are correct, in that a good lanemate makes your life a ton easier. However, there are some things you can do to combat this. Stay conservative until you have your ult, only really skipping ahead to lay poison for oncoming creep *this is an art, by the way. Too often I see people just making a big poison wall or missing creep. You only need about 2 seconds of poison to hit them all if you do it right.*

You should still be able to farm effectively, just don't get greedy and try a toss unless you know you can stick it. Singed suffers from SAMF syndrome. He needs to be significantly faster than the enemy to be much use.

Basically, wait it out, get pumped, get revenge by melting their faces repeatedly later while screaming and pretending you're Hulk Hogan.
I do have some learning to do as far as poision is concerned. Espcially timing the creep line and getting out before the ranged can snipe me to death.


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condon

Senior Member

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletaria View Post
I do have some learning to do as far as poision is concerned. Espcially timing the creep line and getting out before the ranged can snipe me to death.
The simplest way I can describe it, is that you have to run towards their creep line as the last of your creep is dying, start poison as soon as it dies, run back to your line *causing all their creep to follow right behind you, and shoot at you (which is fine because you have regen)* and stop poison before you cross the "battle line" where the creep will eventually meet. Its a lot easier just to make a practice game and try it out a few times where you're not worried about enemy fire. Once in becomes second nature your gold intake early game will be better than a ranged hero picking off your back line.


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Awaj

Junior Member

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemt View Post
I'm thinking about getting movespeed quints, and runes if needed. Too many champions are faster than your base movement, even with +3 boots.
You don't need more movement speed than +2boots and Force of Nature when stacking survivability imo. Many champions have alot stuns and snares so survivability is the key here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemt View Post
Recap:

ARCHANGEL'S STAFF (if it caps at +600 mana)
-Takes 15 minutes to build up.
-85 AP, plus any from other mana-granting items.
-1k mana, plus mana regen.
-250 HP
-2890 gold total

ROD OF AGES
-Takes 15 minutes to build up.
-80 AP
-725 mana, no mana regen.
-725 HP
-3035 gold total.

The extra 425 HP from RoA is a great advantage, but it really depends, IMHO, in whether or not there IS a cap to Archangel's. Guess I'll try it out.
Good point, but with my build you don't have much +HP items so I prefer Rod of Ages more.

You won't get oom with utility masteries if you're playing smart. And damage is fine w/o any other AP item.

Survivability > Damage.


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condon

Senior Member

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaj View Post
Survivability > Damage.
Winning > Staying alive for 60 minutes.

I agree with the sentiment, but you leave out that singed becomes a fat little ******* regardless of which way you build him. Enough so that he is usually ignored in team fights unless you can land chain stuns on him, in my experience. Why not pump out some poisony doom to make yourself a bigger target. You want them to think you're killable, without thinking they can do it easily. This way when they see you at 1/3rd life running away, they'll want to chase, even if you're regening and A) slaughtering them during the chase predator style, or B) drawing them away from the team fight so your allies have even less players to worry about.

tl;dr Being fat doesn't mean anything if you're not being hit.


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Ulquiorra Cifer

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Member

12-06-2009

I just have 1 question why not make tear first then going for rod of ages? wouldn't the tear help you with mana problems which seems like the biggest problem earlygame since usually you can't chase the enemy for that long since the towers are still up so extra mana regen for a little extra harassment seems more useful.