Found guilty with no evidence.

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WindFarm

Junior Member

02-09-2013

I am a player that gets reported often because of my language, and sometimes I am verbally (90% of the time to my own friends who I queue with pretty much every game, never reported by them though because we are mates). But what stands out to me are the first two games in this tribunal ban case. I was banned without evidence on two of the five games, the first game was a 5 pre-made dominion team who 4/5 of them have ganged up and reported me together. THIS in my opinion is very abusive of the tribunal system. People see 4 reports from one game and they think I must be guilty. Do you know what police do when they get reports like this? They get evidence, if none can be found then there is no case. And if 4 people from the same family condemn somebody, that is fishy. This is what happened. This is bull****.

Being banned for two games with no evidence, completely broken system.

Game #1. No evidence, don't deserve to be punished for it. Ganged up and essentially bullied by a pre-made 5 team who rallied together to report me for nothing.
Game #2. I utilise adult language but not in a way of harassment. Therefore, don't deserve to be punished for it. And again no evidence for the so called 'aftergame' chat.
Game #3. I utilise adult language once and not by being rude to somebody, just expressing my surprise at an action in the game. Don't deserve to be punished for it.
Game #4. I called my team bad twice. I really don't think that constitutes a punishment but some people may argue.
Game #5. And the last game.. Well I personally would never report somebody for that. But I can see why they did. Probably deserve that. But I went 21-6. So that can be forgiven .

I have an issue with this tribunal system
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../6195674/#nogo


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Shelzin

Senior Member

02-09-2013

I haven't read your case... And I don't see the point of reading it if you actually accept that some of it could be considered toxic to the community.

With that said... You only need one bad case of the number of cases given to the tribunal. The two games with no evidence is irrelevant. You weren't punished for those games if there is no evidence.

Edit: I got to game two in your case before I would have hit the punish button.

Quote:
Graves [All] [00:10:54] where in the flying **** did you come from kass?
Graves [All] [00:10:56] oh thats right
Graves [All] [00:10:58] bot isnt warded

Kassadin [All] [00:11:06] thanks for that
Graves [All] [00:11:14] its not a surprise
~

Graves [All] [00:21:52] you may as well have two junglers as it is
Graves [All] [00:21:58] veigar cant hold pressure in lane


Do not ever give information that is hurtful to your team to the enemy team because you are upset at a teammate or whatever.


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Kooshboo

Member

02-09-2013

As Shelzin said, You don't have to be "guilty" on all cases...just one game is enough to warrant punishment for bad behavior.


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WindFarm

Junior Member

02-09-2013

This isn't a ban appeal, truthfully I don't care as long as it isn't permanent, however, this is a judgement on the tribunal system and how broken it is. I have been punished as a part of those two reports without evidence. Otherwise they wouldn't have been taken to the tribunal at all. I don't give a **** if I would have had the same outcome regardless of the two games with no evidence, it is still incorrect for them to be in the tribunal AT ALL because they are non-cases.

That quote you took Shelzin. If you heard only that in a game would you report and expect a player to be punished for it? Truthfully I would not, because I am not immature. It it clearly not an attack on a player, just pointing out a flaw.
You stated it is because I am telling the enemy team? Is my team North Korea and the other South Korea?? Am I not allowed contact with the other team. Am I not allowed to have a rapport with other players in the community? Am I only allowed to talk to the other team to say GG in a passive aggressive manner at the end of each game? If so whip me for my insolence and I will never talk in all chat again, because clearly..


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WindFarm

Junior Member

02-09-2013

A case should not be in the tribunal if there is no evidence. That is one of my many issues with this ****. People had the option to punish me for crimes I didn't commit. In comparison to the legal system of the world. You are saying it is okay for a jury to vote on the guilt of a defendant even if there is no evidence?. You are saying it is okay to be punished without a case? Because that in my personal opinion is complete and utter bull****.


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powerbats

Senior Member

02-09-2013

No were saying that if 1 game your guilty then your getting punished, that's the rules so if you think it's ok to be a jerk in 1 game and a saint in 2 others your wrong.

There's nothing wrong with tribunal, perhaps you need to read the faq at top and learn how it works so you can better understand it and avoid these situation in the future.

Currently if you continue to blame the system your going to end up being perma banned instead of changing like most who get a warning and never end back up in tribunal.

Also the system grabs a random sampling of the total amount of reports for you, we judge based on those reports and yet don't see the other games where your probably just as toxic. In your case as you say 2 reports weren't true but you neglect the 1 that is.

You have to be reported in a large number of games to even get into tribunal the 1st time.

From the faq:

How does the Tribunal System work?
The Tribunal identifies players who have been consistently reported by the community over a large number of games and builds a Tribunal case for them. These cases are presented to random community members who use the Tribunal who then review the case files and render a judgment—pardon or punish. Player Support then uses this information to help assign the right penalties to the right players.

How does the Tribunal choose who to build a case for?
The Tribunal identifies players who have been consistently negative over a large number of games.

Typically a large number of reports are required before a player appears in the Tribunal, so if you had a bad game and are reported, don’t worry! You will most likely not end up in the Tribunal.

The Tribunal does take into account the credibility of the people who file reports. If you are a positive player in League of Legends and only report when the offenses deserve it, your reports will actually be worth a lot more in the Tribunal than someone who abuses the reporting system and falsely reports lots of players.

Generally, players who follow the Summoner’s Code and respect their fellow gamers should never be concerned about seeing the Tribunal.


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WindFarm

Junior Member

02-09-2013

I'm not neglecting the one that is true, I'm not professing my innocence as a saint of the world. I know I'm not the most 'oh this game is grand rainbows and sunshine' type person. However, I REFUSE to sit idly by while I get judged for acts that cannot be proven, and I did not commit. Yeah you're right. I deserve to get judged for a few of those games. Much like I mentioned before. But for the games that I do not deserve judgement on, but am getting judged anyway, that is the issue. The non-cases. The false-positives. I am not okay with this.

And no the tribunal system is not flawless, nowhere near. Everybody has a different set of morals and judges individuals on different things. And obviously it isn't perfect because games without evidence get onto the tribunal. I'm not trying to cry my way out of a ban, keep me banned, but fix this ****, so next time when somebody gets perma-banned for a game WITH NO EVIDENCE.


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Hepteb

Senior Member

02-09-2013

You are talking about not existing evidence. The only reason to do that is you know that pre and end game chat are not visible in the reform card.

If it was only for the reports, I guess you could have gotten away with your tactics.

Still, there is enough bad behaviour in those 5 games where I come to the conclusion to believe what these guys say about end game chat.

Don't get me wrong. Even if they didn't write a word in their reports, it would still have been a punish.


Tribunal again working as intended


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LittleDi

Senior Member

02-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindFarm View Post
And no the tribunal system is not flawless, nowhere near. Everybody has a different set of morals and judges individuals on different things. And obviously it isn't perfect because games without evidence get onto the tribunal. I'm not trying to cry my way out of a ban, keep me banned, but fix this ****, so next time when somebody gets perma-banned for a game WITH NO EVIDENCE.
Nobody is claiming the Tribunal is flawless. But just so you know a Permaban is issued after a manual review. Thus you won't see them often without some sort of bug in the system bypassing the standard. Also so you can know more:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Why do we have jurors that help decide on verdicts in real life?

Research and data actually shows that using The Tribunal and using our players as reviewers is more accurate than 1 Player Support staff reviewing the case. It's counter-intuitive, but it's a very cool finding.
Also:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
If The Tribunal was a net-negative in the community and did more damage than good, I'd turn it off immediately. I've done the research and had that discussion before. The Tribunal's positive value far out-weighs the negative, which is why we are doing additional features to improve it.

At some point in the future if The Tribunal becomes a net negative, I'd shut it down. I'm a logical person and I'll always make the call that gives our players better experiences.


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WindFarm

Junior Member

02-09-2013

I really thought the tribunal was meant to be about what is right. Not what can be assumed from the people reporting me.. I will happily accept the last 2 games for my behaviour. But the first two, and possibly the third are not deserving of this. If I got an email with only game 4 and 5, there would be no issue, I would have no qualms. But the fact the first 2 (maybe the third) are in the tribunal at all means it is broken.

Hepteb. If you woke up this morning with an email from riot saying you are banned and it was for hearsay after game chat, which is a false quote from a pre-made 5 team. Would you be content? Would you still think the tribunal system is perfect? I highly doubt it. I really do.


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