The TRUTH About "Elo hell"

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Enconex

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Elo hell DOES NOT exist for the majority. There are countless people who claim to be stuck in elo hell, but if you just check their stats, they are not to good and usually have too many deaths in their games.

However, for a select group of individuals, elo hell DOES exist, and I am currently climbing out of it. As a jax/jayce player who used to main top, I felt like I could never get out. I consistently beat my lane, and I could get myself fed close to every game. However this did not matter due to the failing of bot lane EVERY GAME. I don't care about the math involved, I know what it shows. But I guess I was extremely unlucky because 9 out of 10 games bot would feed their adc to no end, with mid being 50/50 on whether they would feed.

Simply put, no matter how hard I tried, carrying my team exceeded my skill, and I could not do it.
I did everything people tell you that you have to do to get out. I helped my support ward, I pinged and tried to co-operate as much as I could, I stopped fights between players who would get pissed at each other, and I worked on my farming skills. However, I did blame players for my losses (though not in chat, I kept it to myself), because it WAS their fault. When I made a mistake, I took note of it, but that didn't stop me from knowing that if that player didn't go in at the dumbest times and feed, that I would've carried the game.

Anyways, despite all this, I switched to lee sin jungle, and my god have things turned around. I quickly started rapidly winning games every time I got him. The reason being is this: U can make every lane win as jungle, with ganks, and you can ward all over the damn place with ruby sight stone.

Regardless of this, when you outplay your lane opponent every game to the point where you out farm him significantly and in most cases get fed, but only win 50% of the time, something is wrong. Because of this I firmly believe that players who should be in the 1400-1500 range, but are stuck in 1100-1200 or sometimes lower, are in elo hell. All those cases with pros/high elo players carrying themselves out means nothing because they DO have the skills to carry, 1400-1500 elo players don't.

I have a 1700 elo friend who smurfed to carry me out, but couldn't do anything due to our team feeding game after game. And since then he has solo'd to try to get the smurf out, but guess what? Ya, hes stuck.

Sure, the math shown over and over shows that after playing many games you will carry yourself out by being more skilled than your allies, but by the nature of randomness, this can be 500+ games.
That my friends, is elo hell.
-enconex

P.S. check out my lee sin match history


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IceCreamSammich

Senior Member

12-30-2012

For me, elo hell does exist. My stats rival the members of pro teams with my support champs. I've been told that a support can 'carry' a game, but that simply put is not true. A support spends most of thier money on wards, defensive/offensive aura items and Oracles. A support has no cs to draw from. The only real money maker for a support is being close (and actually doing something) when an enemy champ is killed, hence the assist money.
Currently, I am at 54% with Sona, 55% with Leona, 47% with Alistar, 67% with Taric, 67% with Janna, 100% with zilean, and 0% with Nunu and Soraka. When someone else calls support, I will usually go with ADC. When I play ADC, most (not ALL, but a greater number than 50%) supports will overextend and feed the enemy ADC, or simply will not play the support role at all.
In my last 20 games that I have documented, 9 of them had feeders that died 18+ times, 8 of them had at least 1 AFK, 4 of them had 2 AFK, 1 had 3 AFK. 7 of them had 'troll' picks. 4 of them actually communicated well in champ select, communicated well in the game and were won by enemy surrender at or near the 20 minute mark.
I'll grant you that I do not do well if forced into a jungle position, or as an ADC with a feeding support, and maybe that's my fault. but I'll guarantee that I am better than this 'elo' suggests. I'm still trying to figure out how a single person is rated when the game is team based. I also have a chess elo, and it is 2287, but that is a single person game with a single person rating...which is much more accurate. The higher elo people are always pitted against people of equal elo, so thier chances of running into a troll pick, or a feeder are much smaller. I started at approx 1200 elo. that put me with people in the 800-1400 elo range for my first 10 games, (or so it is supposed to go). when I checked my team mates on Lolking, I found thier elo was even lower in almost all cases. Because of those issues, I fell lower and lower and lower.
Elo Hell exists and it is very frustrating.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enconex View Post
However, for a select group of individuals, elo hell DOES exist, and I am currently climbing out of it. As a jax/jayce player who used to main top, I felt like I could never get out. I consistently beat my lane, and I could get myself fed close to every game. However this did not matter due to the failing of bot lane EVERY GAME. I don't care about the math involved, I know what it shows. But I guess I was extremely unlucky because 9 out of 10 games bot would feed their adc to no end, with mid being 50/50 on whether they would feed.
If your botlane is routinely feeding their ADC to no end in 9 out of 10 games (when you play Top), then yes, I will say with a high degree of certainty that you played some part in that happening.
Maybe you're going back for a 4th pot instead of helping leash the buff for your jungler, slowing him down. Maybe you're afk farming toplane while your lane opponent ganks bot. Maybe you're getting pushed to turret, letting your lane opponent roam. Maybe you're calling for Jungler help in lane, keeping him away from helping botlane. Maybe you are raging hard in game, putting your botlane on tilt. Maybe you called Top in pregame, making your ADC play a role he's not comfortable with. Maybe your Jungler is camping top without even being asked to, but you don't tell him to stop ganking for you. Etc, etc.

It's a simple fact that assuming you are having no more effect over botlane than the other toplane is, and assuming you are playing SoloQ, that your botlane will win 50% of all their lanes. And they will snowball the game in your favour just as often as they cost you the game. And that's just assuming you're an average player in your Elo, let alone if you're better than the other toplane and so can help bot snowball even more often.


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The Shrink

Member

12-31-2012

Good post. I still think there is an area where there are more trolls and afks but you are generally right.


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Combatheaven

Senior Member

12-31-2012

So you're saying.. theres no leavers, feeders, afkers, massive ragers, table flippers, troller skaters in 1000-1600?
Omg better start solo queing again!


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Enconex

Senior Member

12-31-2012

@LogicalTautology: I don't think you get it

Quote:
Maybe you're going back for a 4th pot instead of helping leash the buff for your jungler
Wrong, I never do this and help my jungler as much as he wants.

Quote:
Maybe you're afk farming toplane while your lane opponent ganks bot
Afk farming? Don't you mean free farming? Regardless, if you read my post, you would see that it is extremely rare for me to have lost my lane.Therefore It is usually me roaming around trying to help lanes. If for some reason their top decides to put themselves more behind by roaming, I am one to quickly push the lane and follow them as best I can while making sure others know hes mia.

Quote:
Maybe you're getting pushed to turret, letting your lane opponent roam
Mostly the same as above.

Quote:
Maybe you're calling for Jungler help in lane, keeping him away from helping botlane
Again, it is rare that I need help from a jungler because I near always win my lane top. Why would I call my jungler away from a lane that needs help? I don't do this.

Quote:
Maybe you are raging hard in game, putting your botlane on tilt.
Thanks to my recent game history of getting to diamond in starcraft 2, it takes a lot to make me rage, and I have yet to do so in-chat in League.

Quote:
Maybe you called Top in pregame, making your ADC play a role he's not comfortable with
I do usually call a specific role, but I make sure everyone gets as close to what they want as possible and let them know I can do any role if needed. So this is not the cause either.

Quote:
Maybe your Jungler is camping top without even being asked to, but you don't tell him to stop ganking for you.
I get First blood as top lane quite often, and after that happens my jungler never ganks for me (and I don't need it). But in the rare cases that I don't get first blood, or he does gank top, I do make sure to tell him to "help out bot lane because they could use the help".

So as you can see, ALL of the reasons you have proposed are not the reason for bot lane feeding. Also, 5 out of those 10 games, either the support or adc will die before the jungler even gets through killing blue buff + his wolves and wraiths. There is probably some ridiculous reason your gonna tell me that it is somehow still under my control, but at this point, I should not have to do whatever it is every game just so bot lane can win.

Quote:
It's a simple fact that assuming you are having no more effect over botlane than the other toplane is, and assuming you are playing SoloQ, that your botlane will win 50% of all their lanes.
I have also in my post said repeatedly that I know what the math shows, and I know that after playing more and more games that the 9 out of 10 will change to 5 out of 10. But I have also stated in my post that due to the nature of randomness, this can be 500+ games. And when you are stuck in this position, you are in elo hell.

Thanks for your reply, but you have yet to convince me (from my other thread "Elo hell exists. Deal with it" which has been closed.) that elo hell does not exist for certain individuals.

OH and I must ask, have you played much ranked in season 3? And how far have you gotten in terms of elo considering all seasons?


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Vrykonik

Senior Member

12-31-2012

You are better in your head than you are in game. It sounds like you win your lane, but are unable to carry from there. Most the the high rated players I'm played with once they own their lane and start roaming the game is over for the other team. You need to translate your early game advantage into late game staying power. It sounds like you haven't mastered this if your laning phase is so perfect as you describe. And no, your team sometimes doing badly is not a good excuse. And that really is all it really amounts to, an excuse. You don't have to win 10/10 games to gain ELO. Simply win the games you're supposed to, and win 1-2 that you aren't. Then you gain. That is what great players do, something obviously you are not yet capable.


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Enconex

Senior Member

12-31-2012

@Vrykonik: You obviously don't get it either, and I doubt you have much ranked experience.

Quote:
You are better in your head than you are in game.
Maybe, but I know what I need to improve on, and every game I take note of the things I could have done better. I used to play a game called Starcraft 2 addictively and I know how to play to improve ect ect... which eventually got me into diamond league in the game.

Quote:
It sounds like you win your lane, but are unable to carry from there.
I am certainly able to carry from there, in fact i'm great at it. Despite making it sound like I lost all my games that bot lane fed, I won a good bit of them (about half). The reason I won these games is because of how well jax (my main champ) could kill an adc in a few seconds during a team fight, and still live to kill others. It got to be that I would carry half my games and the rest I would get close to carrying, but not quite be able to.

Quote:
Most the the high rated players I'm played with once they own their lane and start roaming the game is over for the other team
Define high ranked players. I agree with you that a player in 1600+ elo will carry themselves out most of the time, and certainly the professionals can. If you read my original post, you would see that I stated this. However i'm not saying I deserve to be in that elo, i'm saying I deserve to be around the 1400-1500 range. Most people in that range, if stuck in elo hell, CANT carry themselves out. Like I stated in my ORIGINAL post:
"I have a 1700 elo friend who smurfed to carry me out, but couldn't do anything due to our team feeding game after game. And since then he has solo'd to try to get the smurf out, but guess what? Ya, hes stuck." His 1700 elo account is "the king kazma", look him up if you don't believe me.

Quote:
And no, your team sometimes doing badly is not a good excuse.
My team doing badly, while I consistently win my lane every game is not an excuse for losing? What if they played equally as good as me? What if they listened to my advice in game? Don't you think I have tried doing things to help them do better. Like I have said, once again, in my original post, and the following post, I DO everything possible to make my team play better. The problem is, I am no pro who needs to be in a super high elo and can carry themselves out, I am a player who I think should fit around the 1400-1500 elo (although I could probably compete higher), and doesn't quite have the individual skill to carry a team under any circumstance.

Simply put, If one person feeds, I can usually carry, if 2 people feed, then things get hard.

Also, if anyone has bothered you look at my original post (yes, AGAIN), you would see that I am happily, and rapidly, gaining elo with lee sin jungle, where you CAN have an effect over every lane. Though there are still games I lose due to my teammates making decisions that blow my mind (in a bad way).


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OmegaProject

Member

12-31-2012

Didn't Read LOL


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wrsthnsatn667

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Hey all, just thought I'd post another comment. I didn't realize how popular my thread still was and I appreciate all the love.

Another bit of advice, you need to realize how bad your deaths really are. Some people think "Sure I died 7 times, but I got 15 kills, that's more than twice my deaths! We should've won!" My advice to you is aim for under 5. Obviously different length games result in different death counts. Try to die no more than once every 8 minutes. I don't remember the exact math, but if you die 6 times in an average game, say your average death count is 30 seconds (obviously it gets to be about twice as long 40 minutes in). That's 180 seconds you're out of the game unable to do anything. 3 minutes, or 10% of a 30 minute game. That's a LOT.

The number are actually bigger and it's really around 15-20% of the game a lot of people spend dead who don't understand the importance of deaths. Think of the gold you're giving them. If you stay worth 300g per kill, that's 1800g. That's a Needlessly Large Rod/B.F Sword + change. That's HUGE for the enemy team's stats, + assists.

Just realize how important your deaths REALLY are, it's a lot of gold for them, and a lot of downtime for you. Keep that in mind, and again thanks for all the love, I appreciate it!