How Do You Rate the Council's Performance?

The Council does a satisfying amount of reviews. 9 37.50%
The Council does not do enough reviews. 5 20.83%
Reviews done by the Council are helpful/insightful. 12 50.00%
Reviews done by the Council are not helpful. 3 12.50%
I approve of the Councilís Review-for-a-Review policy. 14 58.33%
I do not approve of the Councilís Review-for-a-Review Policy. 2 8.33%
The Council has provided me with reliable guides/resources. 9 37.50%
The Council should provide more guides/resources. 6 25.00%
I like the Councilís champion design template. 6 25.00%
I do not like the Councilís design template. 6 25.00%
Council-run AMA threads are insightful and erudite. 6 25.00%
Council-run AMA threads are inept and ill-informed. 2 8.33%
Council members are polite and professional. 11 45.83%
Council members are not polite and professional. 4 16.67%
Quality of the forum has improved under the Council. 9 37.50%
Quality of the forum has not improved/has declined. 2 8.33%
I feel that I can turn to the Council for reliable help. 11 45.83%
I do not feel that the Council is qualified to help me. 4 16.67%
The Council is too formal; they should be more casual with the community. 6 25.00%
The Council is too casual; they should be more formal with the community. 1 4.17%
Knowing Council membersí backgrounds would help me value their input. 10 41.67%
I would not benefit from getting to know Council members personally. 4 16.67%
The Council has helped me grow as a Champion conceptualist. 8 33.33%
The Council has not helped me grow as a Champion conceptualist. 2 8.33%
My overall impression of the Councilís performance is positive. 17 70.83%
My overall impression of the Councilís performance is negative. 5 20.83%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

[Survey:] Rate Your Council!

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Poeta Somnium

Senior Member

12-24-2012

2012 is coming to a close, as is the Council’s fourth month of active service. We would like to take this opportunity to transition into the new year armed with insight into what we’re doing right and what needs work, ensuring that the Player Concepts Forum enjoys further prosperity in 2013.

Please take a moment to fill out this survey and give us your opinion on our performance and our impact on the forums thus far.

Note that the survey questions are listed in pairs; two answers per question. Please respond only once to each question to preserve accuracy. If you are undecided or have no opinion on a particular question, skip it and go on to the next one. This is an open-ended poll that we will be tracking the patterns of as the year progresses; if you do not feel you have enough criteria by which to cast a decisive vote you can always come back.

As the options in the survey are largely black-and-white yes/no responses, please feel free to post any additional feedback concerning why you voted the way you did, or if you have thoughts on a topic not included in the poll. Endeavor to keep feedback constructive; if you have a criticism to make please provide examples of why you feel the way you do and what you would like to see changed. Same goes for positive feedback: hearing about how awesome we are is certainly nice, but please provide specifics to supplement your opinion.

There is a secondary survey here in which you may vote for what activities/themes you would like to see more of in the forum.

Happy Holidays and high hopes for the coming year. ^_^

~Poet & the Council

*note: Responses to this poll are public. Having access to this information will better help us understand individual feedback. Please do not feel self-conscious about voting or use an alternate account to vote; we want to here from you. Be honest whichever way you decide to vote. We can't improve if you don't tell us what needs improvement!


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Katsuni

Senior Member

12-24-2012

I'd say there's definitely room for improvement, but overall it's been far better than I honestly had expected. I mostly expected it to be just a bunch of people begging to get in simply because it was a title, without any real value to having such. It seems like those have mostly been weeded out already, and the ideas of things like AMA's are helpful, though I do feel most people won't take advantage of the resources being provided to them. That's not so much the council's problem, however, though there may be ways to encourage people to actually try to accept some help here and there.

I'm not quite sure whot to do on the matter myself, but I think the biggest issue right now is that it's mostly the same dozen or so people who are accepting help by reading guides, asking questions, or looking for help in general, and there may be some methods available to somehow encourage others to start using the help offered.

Anyway, overall the council dealie hasn't hurt things for the most part. I feel there's the odd bit here and there where I may disagree, but it's mostly a difference of opinion or background. The fact that yeu're willing to try to help is a free service that is welcome, at the very least. Yeu may not always have 100% the best advice ever, but it's usually pretty good advice as a whole, and typically helps out ^.^

Regardless, thanks for spending yeur free time to help out, and good luck on things going better in the new year!


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Poeta Somnium

Senior Member

12-25-2012

My troll senses are tingling....

Thank you everyone else for your votes! More please! ^_^


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Falstar

Senior Member

12-25-2012

Too many options. Mine eyes t.t


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Bliztron

Senior Member

12-25-2012

I approve of the council.

These peoplw have no idea how bad it was during the Age of Cataclysm. o.o


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Dzanio

Senior Member

12-25-2012

My own experience (short that it is) is that most people on this board are not interested in philosophical discussions, or even always of feedback on their designs. The current council programs pander well to those few who are truely interested in creating and designing wonderful champs. However, their scarcity amongst the frequenters of this board means that the AMAs are not being utilized. The guides seem to be more successful since they pander to people just coming to the board, as well as to people trying to get more ideas. I would concentrate on upgrading the quality of these, before moving to headier topics. We need to establish a large enough community of learned, experienced, and interested people that things like the AMAs will find success.

The reviews seem to help a lot; most of the community responds positively to feedback, and enjoy any interest shown in their creations. I find that champions the council has reviewed are generally at a much higher level of detail and developement than those who have not had extensive reviews. The more people who buy into a project, the greater the outcome, and I enjoy seeing the results of everyones' hard work.

One thing the council could improve in is finding a way to get people to buy in to giving other people's champions extensive reviews. I frequently see people posting one or two line "reviews" which are basically "cool," or "keep at it." It would help if we could tap the greater community to work at developing characters; not only does it benefit the reviewee, but the reviewer often learns new aspects of champion developement by thinking through a meaningful evaluation of someone else's champion. There are many champions who die, or stagnate before even getting going, even when designed by longstanding members of the community. Obviously not all concepts are solid enough to be built all the way to fruition, but I think with more community buy in the number of polished champions would rise.


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Dzanio

Senior Member

12-25-2012

Side Note: Your poll would benefit vastly if you added some spacing between the different groups of questions.


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Katsuni

Senior Member

12-25-2012

Quote:
One thing the council could improve in is finding a way to get people to buy in to giving other people's champions extensive reviews. I frequently see people posting one or two line "reviews" which are basically "cool," or "keep at it." It would help if we could tap the greater community to work at developing characters; not only does it benefit the reviewee, but the reviewer often learns new aspects of champion developement by thinking through a meaningful evaluation of someone else's champion. There are many champions who die, or stagnate before even getting going, even when designed by longstanding members of the community. Obviously not all concepts are solid enough to be built all the way to fruition, but I think with more community buy in the number of polished champions would rise.
Oh trust me... we've tried... oh how we've tried ;_;

From an entire section of my guide listing how to review and why, including how to accept criticism, to the previous council's attempts to encourage people to suggest OTHER people's designs, we've tried. There's been so many attempts, and yet, sadly, we still get stuck with people like Nhan Fiction, who will never, ever, help anyone, and will only spam their own stuff begging for reviews in the most inappropriate of places. Nhan, in particular, is pretty much the #1 cause of so much disillusionment that the last council fell apart and pretty much all it's members, save myself, lost so much hope that they quit the forum entirely.

The self centered, greedy and egotistical population, especially during the "age of cataclysm", as it's been called, (personally I'd have used dark age, but whotever =P ) has shown that it's very hard to get anyone to act in the interests of anyone other than themselves.

For a LURVELY quote describing the self centered ******tery around here at times...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlashyShadows View Post
I posted a couple of times on forums and whenever i gave what I thought was a good idea, pretty much no one saw it.

I made this char a couple of days ago and it got 27 views. I know that alot of people post, but if your not going to bother to look at the ones that got little views, then pretty much two champions will be made from this.

I'm not going to give you every detail about this character, because you still have to put a lot of work into making new champions, besides the artwork.

*I'm just going to give some ideas and if you like them you can change them around to make it better. Sorry if this is copying off other people's ideas, but i dont look at other champion ideas.*
Let me highlight one problem with this line of reasoning...
Quote:
pretty much no one saw it
Quote:
but i dont look at other champion ideas
In general, the people around here have a problem with associating cause and effect. If no one looks at anyone else's stuff, then no one will see yeur own stuff. Expecting everyone else to fawn over yeur half assed designs without returning the favour is simply not going to happen.

Toss in things like Nhan posting in inappropriate places (spamming their Kiya champion in every single post imaginable without even looking at the post, sometimes ending up being highly offensive in the process...), and a general attitude amongst many here of "why should I do anything for anyone else when I can just spam my **** instead?", it's remarkably difficult to get anyone to do much of anything to help out.

If we could get people to truly do reviews on their own, and not just a "review for a review" which mostly ends up just being single sentence "I like it, review mine" ****, it'd help the entire community out.

Trying to beat the concept into people that if they'd just do one or two reviews a week, it'd snowball very quickly and help their own designs out in turn, has been nearly impossible to achieve so far.

If yeu can pull it off somehow, and tap into the vast number of posters here, and get them to care about anyone other than themselves for a change, then it would probably be the single greatest achievement this forum has ever had.

So... good luck. Yeu'll needs it.


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Poeta Somnium

Senior Member

12-25-2012

First of all, very good feedback everybody. Discussions about improving the forum make me all tingly!

Now, fair warning; I feel a long quasi-philosophical speech coming on that may or may not be steeped in holiday butter rum. If I start to ramble into the twilight zone just disregard it. Ready go!

Getting the community to do more altruistic reviews is one of the very first issues I brought up when the Council first formed, and the problem then is the problem now; it comes down to a matter of changing human nature over the Internet. I must agree with Kat, -- if we can somehow achieve that and make people care about others before they care about themselves not only would it be the single greatest achievement in the history of this forum, but I think a Nobel Peace Prize would be in order. It is that big of a problem.

Whether we encourage altruistic behavior sentimentally ("reviewing others helps the community grow and you should do it because it's a good deed") or argue it logically ("reviewing others establishes a productive learning enviornment between both the reviewee and reviewer") neither pathos nor logos is going ot stick despite the fact that both doctrines of logic are right. The approach that is going to stick is always going to be the modality of "by reviewing others you garner reviews for yourself."

Again, it comes down to human nature, which is in summary ME ME ME. Nietzsche got it right in his discussion on the Will to Power being the primary drive of human life; we long to see ourselves succeed and be supreme over others; helping others is antithetical to this, and is therefor antithetical to our nature.

I agree wholeheartedly; it's a big problem and I won't pretend that I have a solution. I may have a theory, I may have an ideal, but I can't make people embrace it. That's up to people.

I was going to segue into something else but forgot what it was. Merry Christmas everybody. Keep the discussion rolling, this is valuable.


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Katsuni

Senior Member

12-26-2012

Alright then, to segue for yeu then, let's state that human nature is, by default, non-altruistic, but rather quite selfish. Now the real trick here is to recognize whot altruism truly is.

Being helpful to others is not honestly a selfless act, at it's core. Yeu help others because it makes yeu feel good to do so. Yeu do it because yeu either feel guilty, or because it makes yeu feel warm inside.

Why does that even occur at all? Would it not be most beneficial to benefit self only, rather than spreading it out?

They are benefiting themselves, in the sense that they're benefiting themselves by proxy. We have the interesting ability, in some of us, to extend our sense of "self" elsewhere, be it to family, to friends, to our country, our race, our species, to animals, or even life in general. This is treated as still being essentially "me", in a rather odd display, where it becomes more valuable to help another than to help oneself.

This is whot allows for self sacrifice to occur in the first place, this extension of self to a larger audience. It's done by extending the term "self" by making other people "honourary selves" by proxy, where helping someone else, is deemed to be equivalent to helping oneself.

Now, the problem here, is we honestly need a mixture of such. Some must be altruistic, some must be selfish for the species to survive.

If there's a burning building, and someone is trapped inside of it, and there are 10 bystanders watching... how many should risk their lives to save the one in the building? Honestly, it should be about 1 in 10. In this manner, yeu go double or nothing; yeu have a chance to gain one extra, or lose one extra. In this manner, it's a risk worth taking on a species level. If two were to run in to try to save one person, then it's possible to lose more than yeu could potentially gain, unless that particular individual is weighed as being more valuable than normal (a leader of a tribe, or some other form of importance).

In any case, it means that, due to this built in response for human nature, only about 1 in 10 or so is going to be particularly self sacrificing. Any more than that, and it's more harmful to the species outside of the forum, meaning we're going to be risking adjusting our species' survival and breeding rates at a fundamental, intrinsic level by correcting behaviour on the forum.

It's out of reach, and probably should remain that way.

If someone can figure out how to do so, by showing this nature to others so that they change their outlook on life, it could potentially mess with the entirety of their base nature in a self destructive manner.

Soooo yeah, it seems like such a simple thing on the surface; if yeu help others, yeu help yeurself. Trying to convince peoples this though is genetically bred into them NOT to to do so though, with rather valid reasoning, and trying to isolate this one, particular case, and describe it in such a way that it only affects a small sliver of their lives, without impacting any other areas, is nigh on impossible.

If someone can pull it off, yeu're a genius. Flat out. It's also probably a bad idea, but whot can yeu do?