Should the Banner of Command passive/actives be placed as a Runic Bulwark upgrade?

Yes 4 66.67%
No 2 33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

Buffing Minions & Blending Items

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Neizzle

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Senior Member

05-09-2013

Hello,

Does it make sense for Riot to get rid of the Banner of Command and reposition it as an upgrade from the Runic Bulwark?

  1. Banner of Command is only ever purchased for it's aura and active ability (it's base stats are too expensive to otherwise build it for the AP/Armour/CDR).
  2. Having the passive and active stuck on a stat-specific item limits it's use (Why build AP as an AD champ? Why specify Armour over MR? What if you don't need the 40% capped CDR?)
  3. People who are interested in buffing minions will often seek out both of these items in addition to the Captain boot upgrade. Why take up 3 item slots with mid-level items when 1-2 could easily do the trick. That's quite the commitment.
Your thoughts? I posted a 'vote' at the top to track thoughts of people who don't want to comment but still have their voice heard.


Thanks for your time!


TL;DR: Vote yes.


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awkwardbowman

Senior Member

05-09-2013

If anything, I feel like it could be a viable alternate build path to have banner come from aegis. After all, you don't always need the extra MR and the option would be useful.


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BaronVonPwny

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Senior Member

05-09-2013

Well, it does need buffs obviously but you go about it the wrong way. Just gonna list a few things.
1) Runic is amongst the most purchased items in the game already. It does not need to be more viable.
2) 95% of all items are stat specific. And as everyone benefits from every single stat it currently has, except AP which about 10% of supports wouldnt get much use from, it has a very nice stat coverage already.
3) This was discussed a while ago, to some good effect. I'll basically show you what we came up with:

Banner of Command:
Seeker's Armguard + Kindle Gem + 440g = 2450g total
+40 ability power
+45 armour
+250 health
+10% cooldown reduction
Unique Aura: Nearby allied minions gain +15% increased damage.
Unique Active - Promote.

So, you might be saying "But that isn't even a support item anymore!" And yes, thats the point. Supports dont want to build it. They want other actives that actually benefit their team mates in fights, not fairly 'passive' effects to help push. This changes it to a jungle item.
Maokai, Sejuani, Amumu, Nunu, any AP jungler, and a lot of tank junglers could benefit greatly from this. It provides good armour and utility, and the active helps them push down towers - which currently only AD junglers can really do. It promotes more lane presence (get it?), as it lets you push lanes, or simply hold them a lot easier.
But, this leaves a gap, which is the second Emblem of Valor upgrade. So, what to do with this? Well, I made a thread on that as well.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3421459
Can't be bothered writing all of that one out, so there you go. That solves many issues with what you were saying.
Hope this helped!


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonPwny View Post
Well, it does need buffs obviously but you go about it the wrong way. Just gonna list a few things.
1) Runic is amongst the most purchased items in the game already. It does not need to be more viable.
2) 95% of all items are stat specific. And as everyone benefits from every single stat it currently has, except AP which about 10% of supports wouldnt get much use from, it has a very nice stat coverage already.
3) This was discussed a while ago, to some good effect. I'll basically show you what we came up with:

Banner of Command:
Seeker's Armguard + Kindle Gem + 440g = 2450g total
+40 ability power
+45 armour
+250 health
+10% cooldown reduction
Unique Aura: Nearby allied minions gain +15% increased damage.
Unique Active - Promote.

So, you might be saying "But that isn't even a support item anymore!" And yes, thats the point. Supports dont want to build it. They want other actives that actually benefit their team mates in fights, not fairly 'passive' effects to help push. This changes it to a jungle item.
Maokai, Sejuani, Amumu, Nunu, any AP jungler, and a lot of tank junglers could benefit greatly from this. It provides good armour and utility, and the active helps them push down towers - which currently only AD junglers can really do. It promotes more lane presence (get it?), as it lets you push lanes, or simply hold them a lot easier.
But, this leaves a gap, which is the second Emblem of Valor upgrade. So, what to do with this? Well, I made a thread on that as well.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3421459
Can't be bothered writing all of that one out, so there you go. That solves many issues with what you were saying.
Hope this helped!
This is an interesting idea but the only issue I can find with it is that shen, Vlad and Rumble would get it in lane and it would end up being core on them. This could however be a great way to change up the current jungler items by making more than lanturn have an active by having say Spirit of the Ancient Golem have promote and reduce the health given by 50 or 100.


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BaronVonPwny

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Senior Member

05-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulbladez View Post
This is an interesting idea but the only issue I can find with it is that shen, Vlad and Rumble would get it in lane and it would end up being core on them. This could however be a great way to change up the current jungler items by making more than lantern have an active by having say Spirit of the Ancient Golem have promote and reduce the health given by 50 or 100.
Well, making a Spirit item have an active is really counter-intuitive to their design, as they all mirror each other fairly well, and they are already strong enough on their own.
And, whats the problem with laners getting it to? It offers a more utility version of the damage and defense Zhonya's gives, and would be rather situational. Giving them some choice wouldnt really hurt, in this regard, I dont think. At the least, they would use it more then supports currently do.


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Neizzle

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Senior Member

05-10-2013

You guys bring up some interesting points. However, I feel that blending it with a jungle-specific item once again limits it's exposure to other champions. When I first made this post, I was only thinking of a Malz or Yorick. But yeah, with AD junglers and split pushers included, there's all the more reason to make it a more universally accepted item.

By my estimations, you pay approximately 600g for the passive/active on the item. Not all Bulwark-builders would invest in this addition, especially since the active is on such a long cd. Plus I think it needs to stay on a mid-late game item so not everyone rushes it.

Thanks again for your input! Perhaps we'll see a change for this one day.