What features of the proposed system do you find helpful:

Ability to report for actions during champ select 125 56.82%
Ability to kick unruly/trolling players 161 73.18%
Not having to dodge in these situations 97 44.09%
Not having to play in these situations 97 44.09%
None 27 12.27%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 220. You may not vote on this poll

Vote to Kick: The Definitive Solution

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Vanitius

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fongletto View Post
I think your system has a number of faults in assumptions.

1. Should the person who first calls a role be the one to get it?
2. Does the last pick always have to be the one to support if no one else wants to? What if they only play mid and completely suck at everything else?
3. Should 4 people get to decide what character you get to play?
4. Won't this force the meta? and everyone else playing outside the meta get kicked from groups?
1. No, I never said that, nor do I condone it. People should say, "can't play [role]" or "really bad at [role]" rather than just calling a lane. It's not about who calls it, it's about who picks it. If people call it and 4 of the 5 agree on the set, it's set whether the 5th likes it or not. It's going to be that way until they implement a queue-for-role system.
2. No, I never said that either. Read 1. That's not even relevant.
3. That's not what's happening here. This isn't just straight vote to kick, you're reporting someone for specifically doing something. i.e. No communication, AFK, Picking a champ for a role that's already been picked and locked in.
4. No, there's no option to report for 'not playing the meta'. Does that mean people wont make stuff up just to kick people? Of course not. But there's no immediate punishment, you just have to re-queue. Big deal. Whether or not there is to be punishment enacted is decided by the tribunal at a later time. That's why this system is hard to abuse.


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Fathootz

Senior Member

12-24-2012

promotes toxic attitude worse than the system they have now


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Vanitius

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddum420 View Post
promotes toxic attitude worse than the system they have now
How do you figure?


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Fongletto

Senior Member

12-24-2012

1. No, I never said that, nor do I condone it. People should say, "can't play [role]" or "really bad at [role]" rather than just calling a lane. It's not about who calls it, it's about who picks it. If people call it and 4 of the 5 agree on the set, it's set whether the 5th likes it or not. It's going to be that way until they implement a queue-for-role system.

2. No, I never said that either. Read 1. That's not even relevant.

What you say and what will happen are different. The common mentality is Pick order > calling a role. Is who gets what. If 2 people want to play mid but someone isn't as fast at typing but is last pick. Then others will just kick them if they don't conform.

Also if there is no punishment and players don't like their team, they will just troll to get kicked.

3. That's not what's happening here. This isn't just straight vote to kick, you're reporting someone for specifically doing something. i.e. No communication, AFK, Picking a champ for a role that's already been picked and locked in.

Actually that's how you WANT the system to be used. In reality the first 4 people will pick their roles and if the last guy doesn't take what's left the 4 will kick them.

4. No, there's no option to report for 'not playing the meta'. Does that mean people wont make stuff up just to kick people? Of course not. But there's no immediate punishment, you just have to re-queue. Big deal. Whether or not there is to be punishment enacted is decided by the tribunal at a later time. That's why this system is hard to abuse.

How you want people to use the system and how they will are different. If someone plays outside the meta, they will get kicked by most people. Which means no one will want to try anything new for fear of being kicked or assuming a punishment later on.


Conclusion: The reds have basically responded to 100 of these threads suggesting the same thing you have. All of them gave the responses I have given. The system will be abused like in the cases I have described.


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Mensen

Junior Member

12-24-2012

I can't say I would agree with this, and here's why:

Firstly, a vote-kick option would solidify the already stagnant meta.

For example, say me and my friend duo and want to do an unconventional strategy such as double jungle or double bruiser botlane

The other three players in the lobby would loudly exclaim

"TROLLS"

and proceed to votekick me or my duo companion.

Should players be not allowed to attempt new strategies, or only mimic the team compositions of the professionals?


Secondly, simply getting into a game, would be a disaster.

If a "vote-kick" system was implemented, I think it is safe to say that there would be consistent re-queues as players are kicked for "trolling"

I do not enjoy waiting extreme periods of time simply getting into a game, and this would also negatively affect players who spend 5-10 minutes in queue before a game is found.


What is important to understand and identify is not how to fix trolling in champion select, but WHY people "troll"

Is it:

a) They do not get there lane/pick

b) They enjoy ruining other player's experiences?

c) ????


Instead of implementing a "vote-kick" system, the true solution would address why people troll, not the trolling itself.


Believe me, if the solution was this simple, riot would most certainly have already implemented it.

Riot are good at their job, they provide us with an amazing game and should understand the problem better we do.


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Vanitius

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12-24-2012

What you say and what will happen are different. The common mentality is Pick order > calling a role. Is who gets what. If 2 people want to play mid but someone isn't as fast at typing but is last pick. Then others will just kick them if they don't conform.

Not picking what the team needs as last pick is a punishable offense according to Riot. I don't agree with it for the reasons you've described, but that's their rule, not mine.

Actually that's how you WANT the system to be used. In reality the first 4 people will pick their roles and if the last guy doesn't take what's left the 4 will kick them.

Re: So what, they re-queue. No dodge timer, no nothing. If they didn't do anything wrong the tribunal wont punish them.

How you want people to use the system and how they will are different. If someone plays outside the meta, they will get kicked by most people. Which means no one will want to try anything new for fear of being kicked or assuming a punishment later on.

You don't TRY things in ranked. You play to win, play what you know, play what works.


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gregorymarco

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Want. So bad.


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Blue Prism

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanitius View Post
So 2 people are being dicks. Then the other three can just vote to kick them, no? Abuse negated.
In theory, this is possible. In practice, probably not so much. People are followers, not leaders. It's more likely that the duo queue will initiate the kick and someone will get wrongfully kicked out of queue. Like the other person said, I'd also rather queue again than get stuck with a pair of duo queue troll.

Look at the flip side of the coin. What if you initiate the vote to kick the duo queuers and the vote fails? Then they will probably hate you and make your life miserable for the next 20 to 45 minutes in game. I'm probably not the only one who got baited into ganking for a duo queue bot lane and as soon as I commit, they just leave me to die.

You have also yet to come up with a solution to this: What kind of punishment does the person who got kicked receive?
If 30 minute dodge timer: what if they were wrongfully kicked by trolls?
If no punishment: how do you address "free" dodges? What if fp got cp'd, and then got a successful 3/5 votes to kick someone to avoid the cp?


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Fongletto

Senior Member

12-24-2012

Not picking what the team needs as last pick is a punishable offense according to Riot. I don't agree with it for the reasons you've described, but that's their rule, not mine.

Show me where it says this? Being a Jerk is a punishable offense. Not playing a role you can't play or don't want to is not being a Jerk.

Re: So what, they re-queue. No dodge timer, no nothing. If they didn't do anything wrong the tribunal wont punish them.

So if there is no punishment, if anyone doesn't like their team comp they will just troll to get kicked out in a way that doesn't look to bad to the tribunal. If there is a punishment then it leads back. The 4 first picks will get what they want and the last person will get kicked if he doesn't conform. Or Kicked if he doesn't play to the meta.

You don't TRY things in ranked. You play to win, play what you know, play what works.

You try it in normals, then if you think its viable and you play it well and will give you a good chance to win, you take it to rankeds. It might work for you and you might know it well. You will still get kicked and banned. (just so you know this is the main reason they don't let you see pick order and pre game lobby chat) They want to the bans to be based on the quality of the game and how they acted in it not because they didn't pick something that wasn't the meta.


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Vanitius

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Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mensen View Post
I can't say I would agree with this, and here's why:

Firstly, a vote-kick option would solidify the already stagnant meta.

For example, say me and my friend duo and want to do an unconventional strategy such as double jungle or double bruiser botlane

The other three players in the lobby would loudly exclaim

"TROLLS"

and proceed to votekick me or my duo companion.

Should players be not allowed to attempt new strategies, or only mimic the team compositions of the professionals?


Secondly, simply getting into a game, would be a disaster.

If a "vote-kick" system was implemented, I think it is safe to say that there would be consistent re-queues as players are kicked for "trolling"

I do not enjoy waiting extreme periods of time simply getting into a game, and this would also negatively affect players who spend 5-10 minutes in queue before a game is found.


What is important to understand and identify is not how to fix trolling in champion select, but WHY people "troll"

Is it:

a) They do not get there lane/pick

b) They enjoy ruining other player's experiences?

c) ????


Instead of implementing a "vote-kick" system, the true solution would address why people troll, not the trolling itself.


Believe me, if the solution was this simple, riot would most certainly have already implemented it.

Riot are good at their job, they provide us with an amazing game and should understand the problem better we do.

Playing things outside the meta in ranked (with rare exception) is something you do with a full team of premades that have tried it before/know how to play with each other. It's not what you do in ranked. I wouldn't call you a troll for trying that, but I'd quickly call you an idiot. But again, the tribunal probably wouldn't punish you for it. Maybe because you're forcing a bot laner to solo, or the team not to have an ADC which they expect. But I still doubt it'd be punished. You'd just get kicked and have to re-queue.

Also, I don't care why trolls troll. They troll cause they're stupid, they don't care about winning. It's not your job nor mine to try to help a troll stop trolling. That's Riot's job. And you're certainly not going to psychoanalyze a troll into not trolling.

tl&dr: I'm not offering a solution to trolling, I'm offering a solution to having to play with trolls.


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