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The State Of Katarina.

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Katarìna

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Bump.


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TheDancingDead

Senior Member

12-29-2012

How are taxes in the State of Katarina?


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FrozenChinchilla

Master Recruiter

12-29-2012

Quote:
Katarìna:
That was true pre-rework. Five second pentas don't happen anymore. Your team needs you. You can't just wait until the enemy team is all at half and expect your team to make that happen 4v5.


Not entirely true. You just need to wait for your team to complete their initial burst before you go in. Only one person needs to be under half for you to go in.

Your calculations in comparing damage were also off.
50 bonus AD is a lot more expensive than 50 bonus AP.

45 AD is 1550
80 AP is 1600

Your calculations assumed equal amounts of bonus AD and AP.


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FrozenChinchilla

Master Recruiter

12-29-2012

Quote:
Nocturnes:

Katarina, at level 18, using a "four-ability combo" without interruption [accounting for base values alone]:
Bouncing Blade: 255 (including the mark being triggered)
Sinister Steel: 180
Shunpo: 160
Death Lotus: 600
Total Damage: 1195

Zed, at level 18, using a "four-ability combo" without interruption [accounting for base values alone]:
Razor Shuriken: 430
Living Shadow: 0
Shadow Slash: 200
Death Mark: Under the assumption that this ability was used first and that, because only base values are being utilized that he has solely his base attack damage scaling, he would deal ~110 damage, as well as 315 additional damage based upon the damage modifier for a total of 425.
Total Damage: 1055

Then Katarina gets a cooldown modifier to do 595 damage all over again while Zed is left without energy and stranded in the middle of the enemy team. Try some arithmetic next time before making grand assumptions.


You're forgetting the fact that Zed has incredibly high attack damage. He is able to use auto attacks between his skills to do very large amounts of damage. Even after his burst, his attacks do lots of damage.

You're also forgetting that Katarina almost never gets an entire ultimate off. It's very rare to ever see someone take a full Katarina ultimate.


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FrozenChinchilla

Master Recruiter

12-29-2012

Quote:
doubleguac:
You're so condescending. Old Katarina wasn't "OMG GOSU SO SKILLED," she was just unreliable. She was definitely harder to play, but it wasn't because her kit was somehow more nuanced. It was because almost all of her damage was on her long channeled ult, which was incredibly easy for good players to disrupt. She either got disrupted and didn't do anything, or didn't get disrupted and melted the entire enemy team. That's just questionable champ design. No champ should be so all-or-nothing.

Also, unclear how giving her more ad scaling and slightly less ap scaling would diversify builds? It would just give people more incentive to rush gunblade. A katarina that scales off AD would play almost identically to a kat that scales off ap; either way, she's not going to be running around auto attacking enemies. No matter how you move her scaling, people are going to build in whatever way maximizes the damage output of her abilities. Her play style is not going to significantly change.


Katarina has always been about her passive. The ultimate has always been a bonus to her kit, and not needed at all.


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FrozenChinchilla

Master Recruiter

12-29-2012

But I have to ask..
"Katarìna" what is your typical build for an AD focused Katarina?
Do you still stack magic penetration?
Katarina is my favorite champion, and I love to theorycraft on all champions I play. I play around with builds from time to time.


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KiteAzure

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Hey uhh im not very good in gaming balance. I usually get my idea ignored or downvoted but wouldnt you say that kat is pretty easy to come back with? I mean kat sees 3 low hp enemies gets a triple comes back and repeats again and again. Im sure that this thread has explained a lot about the reset thing but she is imo the ap version of Darius, no matter what you do she can still come back.


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FrozenChinchilla

Master Recruiter

12-29-2012

Quote:
KiteAzure:
Hey uhh im not very good in gaming balance. I usually get my idea ignored or downvoted but wouldnt you say that kat is pretty easy to come back with? I mean kat sees 3 low hp enemies gets a triple comes back and repeats again and again. Im sure that this thread has explained a lot about the reset thing but she is imo the ap version of Darius, no matter what you do she can still come back.


That is correct, but her snowball also becomes less effective as the game goes on, while Darius continues to scale his tankability endlessly because of easy AD items and strong level scaling.
Late game, Katarina is quite dependent on her team to make big plays in order to finish what they start. Don't get me wrong though, she's amazing at what she does, she just can't do anything on her own late game. That is the nature of most cleanup champions (like Master Yi). Darius is a cleanup champion but he can still build tanky, soak damage, protect carries and still be useful even if his farm isn't there.


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KiteAzure

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
FrozenChinchilla:
That is correct, but her snowball also becomes less effective as the game goes on, while Darius continues to scale his tankability endlessly because of easy AD items and strong level scaling.
Late game, Katarina is quite dependent on her team to make big plays in order to finish what they start. Don't get me wrong though, she's amazing at what she does, she just can't do anything on her own late game. That is the nature of most cleanup champions (like Master Yi). Darius is a cleanup champion but he can still build tanky, soak damage, protect carries and still be useful even if his farm isn't there.

I guess it comes with what the user prefers, I know kat isn't as tricky as fizz but once kats team gets a kill with her name in it, it gets bad really fast. Someone like Darius doesn't have the mobility as kat but he gets tanky for it. I guess what im trying to say is that Kat is most likley the best punisher in team fights, sure anyone could get an Triple or a Qudra kill in a team fight but kat is possibly the easiest to do it with. She really punishes bad teamfights and thats what I find balanced for her. Does horriable in lane but accels in team fights more then any other champion (If she stays alive of course.)


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DramaticSonata

Senior Member

12-29-2012

People fight for buffing Katarina... and Diana on the other hand is completely forgotten and not played much after taking a Nerf Bat to the face.