The State Of Katarina.

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Whyumai

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sherminator View Post
You may have missed the part where I said it was a hybrid item that synchronizes well with her kit. I prefer getting Rylais, but it is not a hybrid item nor is it as fruitful early as you mentioned. The part you also failed to notice was the lifesteal you gain when last hitting, albeit small, but it is worth the 400g you spend for it whilst completing the recipe.
Yeah, and I agree somewhat, it's just I disagree with how well it synchronizes with Katarina's kit. Also I think you'd get more hp back from her abilities (on small jungle neutrals) with spellvamp than by last hitting minions.

Also I think the slow is over rated on Gunblade.

Also I got Sinister Steel wrong, it's a haste not a slow.


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FrozenChinchilla

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sherminator View Post
My entire post was in response to the yourself and others saying she is an easy mode champ etc.

Playing Kat at a high level requires quite a bit of skill was my entire point, it was this chinchilla fellow who simply refuted my post without reading and on no basis and claimed I had no knowledge of Katarina while I clearly do. His implications that ulting only when given the opportunity are moot as there are 2 main things to be gained from ulting after your combo. The first is that, assuming you don't get a kill or assist with your initial combo, you allot more cooldown time to be reset from Death Lotus allowing you to use it again sooner. The second is that, as I demonstrated, it deals more damage than your other abilities combined and the more damage dealt, the faster enemy champions die therefore the faster Katarina procs her passive.

This is simply defending my initial statements that Kat's new kit fits the current meta whilst being high risk, high reward and requires a bit of skill and knowledge to be competitive against a skilled pool of players.
So what you're saying is that you use her ultimate when you go in and you didn't have enough damage to proc your passive (because you miscalculated)? So you're using it for that last couple ticks of damage because you have the opportunity?
Sure, but if you're building Katarina squishy like most people do, you should be cancelling that ultimate the moment you get a kill or assist. Katarina needs to keep moving and jumping around. If you allow yourself to be focused, you'll be focused, because everyone knows how squishy you're building.

Unless you know without a doubt that you'll get your ultimate off, you shouldn't even use it. It just screams "come stun and kill me while I stay still."


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lee is god

Senior Member

12-30-2012

The length of this thread -___________-


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The Sherminator

Senior Member

12-30-2012

The revolver yields spell vamp prior to ever purchasing the vampiric scepter, but alas I prefer haunting guise with a revolver early in most games or perhaps MR pending on the opposition.


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FrozenChinchilla

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

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Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
Dunno about nerfs, but, she should lose all her AD ratios.

She's already got enough going for her that she doesn't need to scale AP and AD. Plus all her damage is magic damage so Armor Pen is useless on her, most There's not enough Hybrid items to go Hybrid, and she doesn't really auto attack that much so crit and attack speed aren't that good either. Therefore most AD items aren't actually that beneficial to Katarina.

So, basically, remove her AD ratios, raise her AP ratios a little, and she'd be fine.
Katarina auto attacks a lot. Her shunpo resets her attack animations. If you aren't auto attacking you're really hurting yourself as Katarina.

You use to be able to go pure AD and do very well. It changed the play style slightly but it was very rewarding.


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The Sherminator

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenChinchilla View Post
So what you're saying is that you use her ultimate when you go in and you didn't have enough damage to proc your passive (because you miscalculated)? So you're using it for that last couple ticks of damage because you have the opportunity?
Sure, but if you're building Katarina squishy like most people do, you should be cancelling that ultimate the moment you get a kill or assist. Katarina needs to keep moving and jumping around. If you allow yourself to be focused, you'll be focused, because everyone knows how squishy you're building.

Unless you know without a doubt that you'll get your ultimate off, you shouldn't even use it. It just screams "come stun and kill me while I stay still."
So what you're implying is to let your team 4v5 until you can jump in and attain a kill to reset your abilities? lol

That seems much more logical than contributing as much damage as early as possible.


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FrozenChinchilla

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentGlue View Post
Katarina is defined by a her ultimate. Team fights are often decided by whether she can cast it for the whole duration.

It's hard to take you seriously when your trying to downplay the importance of her ult. It is her main source of burst damage in team fights. There's a reason why people focus their stuns on Katarina, it because the ult does a ridiculous amount of damage to 3 targets.
Katarina is defined by her passive. Nice try, guy.
Her main source of damage is her passive.
The reason she can wipe a team is her passive.
The reason she is so mobile in a fight is her passive.

Her ultimate is just some easily interrupted skill that doesn't mean anything.
I wish they just took it out so new Katarina players would stop playing Katarina.


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FrozenChinchilla

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
Some stats to begin with yeah?
Gunblade (3400g)
Stats +45 attack damage
+65 ability power
+10% life steal
+20% spell vamp
Passive Unique - Reload: Your basic attacks and single target spells against champions reduce the cooldown of this item by 3 seconds.
Active Unique: Deals 150 + 40% of your ability power as magic damage and slows the target champion's movement speed by 40% for 2 seconds. 60 second cooldown.

Rylai's Crystal Sceptre (2900g)
Stats +80 ability power
+500 health
Passive Unique: Your spell damage will slow the target by 35% for 1.5 seconds (15% for multi-target spells, damage-over-time spells and spells with a cooldown time below 3 seconds).

So rylai's slow is on every spell cast and therefore for the duration of her ultimate. Gunblade's is 2 seconds.

Lifesteal is essentially wasted so you're paying for stats you won't use (or at least won't use much of). Gunblade's active as damage is meh unless you have good AP. It's also around 500 gold more expensive and gives less AP. Build path is better on Gunblade though, with shorter gaps between potential purchases.

Gunblade does give spell vamp though; remove that spell vamp and see how many Katarina players still build Gunblade. Yeah, it's not the slow, but, you're right in that the slow is useful (i suppose). Also Katarina players do like that Gunblade. I just feel it's not as good as it could be for Katarina.

I think Katarina's AP ratios are around 3 AP. That's reasonably decent for a AP (although with the removal of AD ratios hopefully she's gain more AP ratios). She also scales with AP on every ability. She's better as AP. AD Katarina needs to go away already.

She's be easier to balance, better to play as, easier (more effective) choice of items, and you wouldn't be purchasing items that give stats you don't need if katarina was a straight AP champion.
Katarina's ultimate lasts 2 seconds. If you're just doing QEWR then Gunblade is the perfect duration, not to mention the slow is stronger.

The only thing Rylais has over Gunblade is the HP. Everything else is inferior. If it's HP you want, build a faster Haunting Guise.

Although, late game, Katarina doesn't need any slows at all.
It's really just used for her roaming and laning phase.


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The Sherminator

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenChinchilla View Post
Katarina is defined by her passive. Nice try, guy.
Her main source of damage is her passive.
The reason she can wipe a team is her passive.
The reason she is so mobile in a fight is her passive.

Her ultimate is just some easily interrupted skill that doesn't mean anything.
I wish they just took it out so new Katarina players would stop playing Katarina.
You obviously are being stupid and if I continue debating with you, I am going to be pulled down to your level and beaten with experience. So to that end, you are right sir, everyone else is wrong.


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FrozenChinchilla

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Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sherminator View Post
So what you're implying is to let your team 4v5 until you can jump in and attain a kill to reset your abilities? lol

That seems much more logical than contributing as much damage as early as possible.
If you just dive in and ult at the start of the fight you're going to die immediately and your team will get wiped. This is what all bad Katarina players do. The only time this works is if you're running a chain aoe CC team like Galio, Kennen, Amumu.

So yes. You wait for your team to finish their initial burst, then you find the lowest HP target from that burst and you kill them. Then you hop to the next lowest/vulnerable, and so on.

Nobody dies from the initial burst in a fight unless you get caught, in which case, you probably lose no matter what happens.