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The State Of Katarina.

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Katarìna

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Sherm. You seem to be stuck on positioning when it's quite clear that anyone still posting here knows that positioning is key on Kat. Positioning isn't a Kat only thing, so touting it like it's the be all end all of playing Kat isn't really right. Kat is so simple to play that a monkey could get at least a double with her in a game.

This thread is about diversity, please stop trying to derail it into a 'I know Kat mechanics better than you do' sort of thing, even though that is sometimes necessary when dealing with people who don't know Kat mechanics.


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Katarìna

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Titiln:
im wondering why the post isnt hidden yet.


Clearly because the forum mods found my post to be constructive and neutral, and they're doing me a favor by not allowing *******s like you to close my thread.


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Alpha Zealot

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Katarìna:
Sherm. You seem to be stuck on positioning when it's quite clear that anyone still posting here knows that positioning is key on Kat. Positioning isn't a Kat only thing, so touting it like it's the be all end all of playing Kat isn't really right. Kat is so simple to play that a monkey could get at least a double with her in a game.

This thread is about diversity, please stop trying to derail it into a 'I know Kat mechanics better than you do' sort of thing, even though that is sometimes necessary when dealing with people who don't know Kat mechanics.


My entire post was in response to the yourself and others saying she is an easy mode champ etc.

Playing Kat at a high level requires quite a bit of skill was my entire point, it was this chinchilla fellow who simply refuted my post without reading and on no basis and claimed I had no knowledge of Katarina while I clearly do. His implications that ulting only when given the opportunity are moot as there are 2 main things to be gained from ulting after your combo. The first is that, assuming you don't get a kill or assist with your initial combo, you allot more cooldown time to be reset from Death Lotus allowing you to use it again sooner. The second is that, as I demonstrated, it deals more damage than your other abilities combined and the more damage dealt, the faster enemy champions die therefore the faster Katarina procs her passive.

This is simply defending my initial statements that Kat's new kit fits the current meta whilst being high risk, high reward and requires a bit of skill and knowledge to be competitive against a skilled pool of players.


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Thrashie

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Fun fact: Katarina needs nerfs


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Whyumai

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Thrashie:
Fun fact: Katarina needs nerfs


Dunno about nerfs, but, she should lose all her AD ratios.

She's already got enough going for her that she doesn't need to scale AP and AD. Plus all her damage is magic damage so Armor Pen is useless on her, most There's not enough Hybrid items to go Hybrid, and she doesn't really auto attack that much so crit and attack speed aren't that good either. Therefore most AD items aren't actually that beneficial to Katarina.

So, basically, remove her AD ratios, raise her AP ratios a little, and she'd be fine.


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Katarìna

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Whyumai:
Dunno about nerfs, but, she should lose all her AD ratios.

She's already got enough going for her that she doesn't need to scale AP and AD. Plus all her damage is magic damage so Armor Pen is useless on her, most There's not enough Hybrid items to go Hybrid, and she doesn't really auto attack that much so crit and attack speed aren't that good either. Therefore most AD items aren't actually that beneficial to Katarina.

So, basically, remove her AD ratios, raise her AP ratios a little, and she'd be fine.


Her AP ratios are low because she has no resource and a skill reset, not because she has AD ratios as well.

The AD ratios only make sense on a melee champion. If they remove all my AD ratios, they better turn me into a knife throwing ranged champion to compensate. Anyway, Lotus and SHunpo and Sinister Steel wouldn't make sense on her if she wasn't melee.


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Alpha Zealot

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Whyumai:
Dunno about nerfs, but, she should lose all her AD ratios.

She's already got enough going for her that she doesn't need to scale AP and AD. Plus all her damage is magic damage so Armor Pen is useless on her, most There's not enough Hybrid items to go Hybrid, and she doesn't really auto attack that much so crit and attack speed aren't that good either. Therefore most AD items aren't actually that beneficial to Katarina.

So, basically, remove her AD ratios, raise her AP ratios a little, and she'd be fine.


On the contrary, a gunblade which yields AD and AP while giving you a slow to force someone to linger in your ulti longer than they would like is a hybrid item that synchronizes fairly well with her kit.


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SilentGlue

Member

12-30-2012

Katarina is defined by a her ultimate. Team fights are often decided by whether she can cast it for the whole duration.

It's hard to take you seriously when your trying to downplay the importance of her ult. It is her main source of burst damage in team fights. There's a reason why people focus their stuns on Katarina, it because the ult does a ridiculous amount of damage to 3 targets.


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Whyumai

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
The Sherminator:
On the contrary, a gunblade which yields AD and AP while giving you a slow to force someone to linger in your ulti longer than they would like is a hybrid item that synchronizes fairly well with her kit.


Some stats to begin with yeah?
Gunblade (3400g)
Stats +45 attack damage
+65 ability power
+10% life steal
+20% spell vamp
Passive Unique - Reload: Your basic attacks and single target spells against champions reduce the cooldown of this item by 3 seconds.
Active Unique: Deals 150 + 40% of your ability power as magic damage and slows the target champion's movement speed by 40% for 2 seconds. 60 second cooldown.

Rylai's Crystal Sceptre (2900g)
Stats +80 ability power
+500 health
Passive Unique: Your spell damage will slow the target by 35% for 1.5 seconds (15% for multi-target spells, damage-over-time spells and spells with a cooldown time below 3 seconds).

So rylai's slow is on every spell cast and therefore for the duration of her ultimate. Gunblade's is 2 seconds.

Lifesteal is essentially wasted so you're paying for stats you won't use (or at least won't use much of). Gunblade's active as damage is meh unless you have good AP. It's also around 500 gold more expensive and gives less AP. Build path is better on Gunblade though, with shorter gaps between potential purchases.

Gunblade does give spell vamp though; remove that spell vamp and see how many Katarina players still build Gunblade. Yeah, it's not the slow, but, you're right in that the slow is useful (i suppose). Also Katarina players do like that Gunblade. I just feel it's not as good as it could be for Katarina.

I think Katarina's AP ratios are around 3 AP. That's reasonably decent for a AP (although with the removal of AD ratios hopefully she's gain more AP ratios). She also scales with AP on every ability. She's better as AP. AD Katarina needs to go away already.

She's be easier to balance, better to play as, easier (more effective) choice of items, and you wouldn't be purchasing items that give stats you don't need if katarina was a straight AP champion.


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Alpha Zealot

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Whyumai:
Some stats to begin with yeah?
Gunblade (3400g)
Stats +45 attack damage
+65 ability power
+10% life steal
+20% spell vamp
Passive Unique - Reload: Your basic attacks and single target spells against champions reduce the cooldown of this item by 3 seconds.
Active Unique: Deals 150 + 40% of your ability power as magic damage and slows the target champion's movement speed by 40% for 2 seconds. 60 second cooldown.

Rylai's Crystal Sceptre (2900g)
Stats +80 ability power
+500 health
Passive Unique: Your spell damage will slow the target by 35% for 1.5 seconds (15% for multi-target spells, damage-over-time spells and spells with a cooldown time below 3 seconds).

So rylai's slow is on every spell cast and therefore for the duration of her ultimate. Gunblade's is 2 seconds. I'd argue with 44% slow on sinister steel + rylai's slow then continuing rylai's slow for the duration of her ultimate that's generally enough.

Lifesteal is essentially wasted so you're paying for stats you won't use (or at least won't use much of). Gunblade's active as damage is meh unless you have good AP. It's also around 500 gold more expensive and gives less AP. Build path is better on Gunblade though, with shorter gaps between potential purchases.

Gunblade does give spell vamp though, remove that spell vamp and see how many Katarina players still build Gunblade. Yeah, it's not the slow, but, you're right in that the slow is useful (i suppose). Also Katarina players do like that Gunblade. I just feel it's not as good as it could be for Katarina.

I think Katarina's AP ratios are around 3 AP. That's reasonably decent for a AP (although with the removal of AD ratios hopefully she's gain more AP ratios). She also scales with AP on every ability. She's better as AP. AD Katarina needs to go away already.

She's be easier to balance, better to play as, easier (more effective) choice of items, and you wouldn't be purchasing items that give stats you don't need if katarina was a straight AP champion.


You may have missed the part where I said it was a hybrid item that synchronizes well with her kit. I prefer getting Rylais, but it is not a hybrid item nor is it as fruitful early as you mentioned. The part you also failed to notice was the lifesteal you gain when last hitting, albeit small, but it is worth the 400g you spend for it whilst completing the recipe.